Opinions/Help Needed: Unique Gem Condition Washington Quarters
Matt04
Posts: 548 ✭✭✭✭
Yesterday, I visited one of my LCS's and went through a large album filled with 2x2s of Washington quarters. I ended up purchasing about half a dozen examples, but these two immediately stood out because of how seemingly “perfect” they appeared.
Both coins display similar dark, spotty toning, which makes me wonder whether they may have come from the same original owner or collection. A slight haze, particularly noticeable on both sides but not entirely on the 1950-P. Could they have been dipped at some point? Possibly, although I’m not certain. My first thought was PVC haze, upon an acetone bath it did not resolve the issue. But this issue is not so much an issue enough visually for me to dislike the coin, the dark spotted toning is more of an issue.
The dark spotting is somewhat distracting on the 1950-P, but the coin also has a definite “wow” factor that helps offset it. The obverse fields have an unusually smooth, prooflike appearance, though the coin does not have the reflective mirrors needed to be considered PL.
The 1947-S has slightly more contact marks/hits on Washington’s face/hairlines/wear and reverse eagle breast and left wing, along with distinct die-polish lines running through the motto on the left side of the obverse. Additional polish lines are also visible in the fields on the right.
I’ve included several photos and videos of both coins and would love to hear everyone’s opinions on these two interesting pickups!
1950-P:
1947-S:
Comments
The black spots are a major negative. They were contaminated by something at some point long ago.
There are thousands of both of these dates graded 65 and higher. And probably thousands more never submitted.
They are nice, but certainly not unique. But still enjoyable to own.
I agree completely, its more so the 1950. Its got very unique surfaces and is extremely lustrous and little to no hits at all. I don't see that often at all.
Here's the video of it:
The 1950 looks lightly whizzed to me.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Its not. There's no hairlines in the fields or anywhere besides for a few here and there on the bust.
It does look like it might have been messed with. You're assuming (I think) that the texture in the field is die polish. But those features are also on the bust.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I stated die polish lines are visible on the 47-S and that is demonstrated in the photo I attached directly below mentioning it. No die polish lines on the 50-P
Then what explains the textured surface of the 1950?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Its really hard to explain, you can sort of see it in the photos, but its kinda like rays in the fields going outward. I've seen it in the fields of proofs before although it doesn't have the mirrors of a proof to deem it PL.
There is nothing natural or normal about this coin from these photos. the only other explanation would be extreme die fatigue. The problem with that explanation is you would not see the lines on the wings. Have you seen a coin that was whizzed before?
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I have. But a "Whizzed" coin would have severe hairlines, no sort of cartwheel luster, mirror like qualities, and loss in detail. This is something not reflected in the coin.
i don't see anything that screams whizzed about it, its just an odd piece.
Regardless of whether the coin has been whizzed, it’s looks unnatural and not of “gem” quality.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@TomB
Update per my own experiment on this piece, it has now been dipped. Removing a majority of the ugly dark spotting and the original odd haze that was on it, rinsed it now sits in an acetone bath to ensure all remaining solution is off or any other oils/dirt.
Here are some close ups.
Please update when you get these back from PCGS, I hope to be proven wrong.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
They were both most likely dipped at some point before you got them and now one is even more dipped. They’re not worth grading, if that was your plan for them.
Young Numismatist • My Toned Coins
Life is roadblocks. Don't let nothing stop you, 'cause we ain't stopping. - DJ Khaled
Yeah its more so I'm making this post because the 1950 technical wise on the surface looks virtually flawless, which was rather unique to see.
the 1950 is "altered surfaces" in some way and some how
Just trying to figure out what was altered/how out of curiosity. There are no hairlines or loss in detail and the coin is seemingly flawless when it comes to hits or marks. Its very interesting
Looks MS67 to me, even MS68.
I think you're looking with your heart. There is all kinds of pitting on the letters, particular the reverse. You are not seeing them because you're in ❤️. The fields as well as the features all show a similar "texture". To me it looks like it was "chemically whizzed".
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I couldn't say how but based on the photos, it absolutely looks like the surface has been altered in some way.
Looks like natural die deterioration, nothing strange.
The dipping may have killed some of the luster, which could hurt it in the Gem+ grade levels.
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
BHNC #AN-10
JRCS #1606
I only say that it's chemical because the entire surface looks affected. Any mechsnical whizzing or polishing doesn't generally touch the protected areas of the design. But that texture exists on the letters AND between them.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
you're missing the trees for the forest.
you're looking for hairlines but everyone is seeing the large waves going out towards the edge and that they are even on the bust and eagle. that's not natural
That's what's odd about it to me. Fields or devices, it all looks the same.
Especially on both sides. Dies are prepared separately. Getting identical damage to the die on both sides would be statistically improbable.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Does not look whizzed or altered to me, just heavy die use. I suspect the unusually mark free surfaces and heavy die wear flow lines are throwing some people off.
If you think it could get a 67 then it might be worth submitting. Hard to be certain from the images, but it might or might not have an issue with being overdipped.
Check the heavy die wear flow lines on this PCGS-68.
https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-1PHIJ6/1950-washington-quarter-ms-68-pcgs
CoinFacts photos of it don't capture the flow lines as much as the auction photos.
https://pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1950-25c/5841
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
Thank you for this. May I also add both exhibit nearly identical die cracks above the 1950 date at the very bottom of the bust.
"Nearly identical" is meaningless when discussing die cracks. Die cracks are either identical or not. The striking process is very repetitive, putting dies under the same stress in the same places, over and over. During the 1950s, Lincoln cents has many chips and cracks within the letters of LIBERTY, for the same reason.
It seems that you're unwilling to accept feedback from this board. Pay your tuition and see what result you get when you submit it.
Sheesh, what’s your issue lol? I’m not unwilling to accept feedback, I made this post to share a quarter that struck me as rather interesting... I was simply pointing out another similarity I noticed and continuing the discussion. There’s no need to be condescending about it.
And the pitting in the letters? The OP's coin isn't close to that 68. It's not the flow lines, it's the weak, washed out letters, the texture across the high points in the bust (not seen on the 68), and the pitting of the letters and in the spaces between the letters.
Even if it is not altered, it's a 64 at best due to the strike weakness.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I'm not sure he was being condescending. He's simply pointing out that the similar die cracks aren't really indicative of anything other than pending die failure.
The advice to "send it in" is the only way to end this. You are already convinced that you have a "unique gem". We disagree. And you are not ever going to accept our opinion. You may not even accept PCGS's opinion. I don't see any advantage in continuing the discussion at all.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I might get some flak for this but I think thats an exceptionally nice 1950 quarter.
I don't see why anyone would mess with it other than dipping it.
Its worth sending in to get graded.
If it comes back with a straight grade you will know for sure.
Until then your open to others opinions and criticism.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst bretsan MWallace logger7 JWP BruceS bigjpst
JWP PROMETHIUS88
Altered surface on the 1950.
Coin Photography
To me, the "pitting in the letters" is related to the worn die as are the other issues you noted. Have seen this in various Washingtons. A series expert may know if it is more prevelant on certain years. Seems to show up on 1950 a fair amount from looking through a few photos.
There is a different coin photo from Heritage that seems to show it better than the MS-68. Easier to see if opening the larger photo of the reverse below or in the lot listing.
1950 25C Doubled Die Reverse, FS-801, MS67+ PCGS
https://coins.ha.com/itm/washington-quarters/1950-25c-doubled-die-reverse-fs-801-ms67-pcgs-pcgs-145633-/a/1273-3591.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515#
.
.
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
That is closer to what we're seeing with the OP's coin.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.