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Authentication Help: 16-D, 37-D
Numismaphile
Posts: 63 ✭✭
Need some guidance. 1916-D dime and 3-legged Buffalo nickel. Appreciate opinions on whether these are real. I don’t want to tell you my thoughts just yet, looking for objective opinions. Thanks in advance!
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I am no help on the 1916-D Mercury dime. However, the Pick Up Points on the 1937-D 5C 3 Legs, according to PCGS;
Some folks refer to the "urine stream" from the buffalo, and the eroded right back lag.
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I have extreme doubts on both of them.
Fake dime, real nickel.
The mint mark positions are helpful.
Based on these photos, I don't like the looks of either of them. The nickel looks to have the die markers, but it just looks off to me.
I don’t see the diagnostics on the reverse of the nickel, do you?
Both coins look fake to me.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
It appears there was an alteration to the far rear leg of the Buffalo. Performed to simulate die markers of a genuine coin. It wasn't done well.
I don't see the "pee trail" marker clearly (
) , but the moth eaten back leg and mint mark position appear to match. There is also a similar area of die erosion in the left field on both:
.
Here's a late die state example that looks like an even better match for the die erosion and back leg:
.
One thing that does concern me on further examination is the area below:
@Numismaphile Would you care to show the obverse of the nickel? It might shed some further light on this.
Thank you.
I could be wrong but my guess is that it’s a fake. The diagnostics aren’t convincing to me and the shape of the mintmark looks a bit off, though it could be due to contact.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I believe the 3 leg is real. One of the die markers I look at but is rarely mentioned is the beard on the Buffalo. On a non 3 leg the 2 parts are very close to the same length. On the real 3 leg the front one is shorter than the rear one. It would be very difficult to make that on a fake. Also an obverse picture would tell if it’s real from the 3rd feather diagnostic.
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The so-called "pee trail" is in very shallow relief and I wouldn't expect it to be still visible on such a well worn coin.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Dime: Added mintmark. D is too low and does not look right.
Nickel: Altered to look like a 3-Leg
wee're focusing on the buff. probably because everyone is satisfied the merc is counterfeit
Check for a 15-to-20-degree reverse die rotation on the Merc. It's not fool proof, but if it's there, it's a good sign.
Also, the mintmark on the one in this thread looks too sharp, considering the overall condition, based on the reverse image.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Both are fake
Do you have the obverse pic of the nickel?
Thank you for all your helpful comments. The strong consensus is both are not real. I just factor the uncertainty into my buy and sell prices, don't have the time, patience or wallet for grading every coin. 1909-S VDB to come.. again, grateful for your input...
If I may correct you, the consensus among those that correctly interpreted the die markers is that the nickel may be genuine and that it is well worth looking at the obverse of the coin, as I and two other members have requested. The pickup points that are visible match the 3-legged variety, so the coin is either the variety or a copy of a genuine example. I highlighted the region around "AMERICA" because there is some distortion in the lettering; that might be an indication that it is a copy, but might also be due to die erosion and/or some weakness in strike. Seeing the obverse would help sort this out, and as Vetter pointed out, there is also an obverse die marker for the variety that would be useful to look at.
Just to be clear, you cannot sell the fake 1916-D dime, or any other fake coin that is not stamped with the word "COPY". It is both illegal and damaging to the hobby.
I strongly suggest that we finish dealing with the nickel before you move on to anything else.
I would like to see the obverse of the buffalo nickel.
This can help determine if it is real or not. Right now because of the wear, I am on the fence.
I would be interested in the Buffalo if you get them
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TTT.
I misunderstood the support for this poor nickel and will repost with the obverse when I return home on a couple days. Glad it’s not a lost cause yet.
The only thing I can think to do with counterfeits is to use them for training, donate them to A.N.A. for that purpose, or use them in art projects or stone walls in a manner that renders them irreparably identified and encased.
No idea on the dime and need to see full obverse of the Buffalo to tell for sure. Should be a partial small feather and die erosion on neck.
Or send them to ICG to be slabbed as a counterfeit.
One of the PUPs on the Buff is the fact that the 3 Legger was ground down to a very high degree in the attempt to remove clash marks.
The abraiding is so bad that Black Diamond is actually smaller.
On a non 3 Leg nickel E PLURIBUS UNUM will be so close to Black Diamonds hide that it looks like it touches it. On the 3 leg nickel E PLURIBUS UNUM is noticeably farther away.
The coin is genuine.
Pete