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The Guatemalan Bloodbath
SimonW
Posts: 1,516 ✭✭✭✭✭
Any of you folks land some early Guatemala coins yesterday at Stacks? Specifically the pillar coinage. Here is one of the little guys I was able to add: 
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The Peruvian seemed like endless $100 coins.
Seriously, Stacks needs to rethink these 9 hour marathons. Earlier in the week, I had a 4:00 am in Hong Kong, then an all day marathon in the US. I couldn’t get up from my laptop!
Perù was VERY underbid. Everyone ran out of money I think, or interest, or got tired. I was able to land EXTREMELY rare coins for a pittance. Even best known coins went pretty cheap a lot of the time. It would be curious to see what would happen if Peru was put near the beginning of auctions for a while. Would prices go up? Just a general wondering.
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I was out of money before it started…
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I was out of money after Mexico. I loaded up on 8 R for inventory at decent prices. By the third day of pure Mexican coins, almost everyone was out of money (except the bidder using multiple bidder cards).
I actually don’t think it was fair to Richard August, as much of the Peruvian was his. He obviously didn’t have a say to put his coins at the end of a marathon day (1000+ lots) of a marathon week, but he took the hit.
I followed a lot of it.
I think as long as Ian doesn’t sell to private equity, we’ll be seeing Richard August type hoards of world coins and 6 figure foreign material routinely going to Great Collections within 3-5 years.
They do too good a job and offer too much fairness to both consignors and bidders compared to competitors for it not to happen. Photography is top notch, customer service top notch.
I would at least think more American based collectors of world/foreign material are likely to be drawn to GC as a serious option for serious coins.
Just my own thoughts obviously, and I admittedly know about 5% of what some of you do regarding the world coin auction market and some of the lesser known (in America) houses.
I’m not saying that GC is going to take everything over and become the Goliath of world coin auction houses. Just surmising that all of the $100 3:00 am Peruvian would likely have done just as well on GC with both sides of the transaction likely being more satisfied.
Sorry if I’ve taken anything off topic. @SimonW that’s an awesome little circ cam to my eyes. Great pickup!
OK, I’ll take you up on this.
GC isn’t even on my radar. Maybe to my detriment, I don’t even go there. Never. And I don’t even think about it. And as long as people like me exist, GC will never get the prices of the big boys.
Perhaps because they don’t push to places like sixbid or numisbids?
I’m not saying it can’t happen, but it’s not happening organically. He’s going to have to hire a dedicated team and make a big push into world coins, including Spanish language marketing and CS.
Oh, and did I mention I’m available? 😁
Ha….i figured that was the kind of the general consensus here.
I guess that came off as a pretty hot take to many. It wasn’t intended to be. And again……I’m very far from knowledgeable about all the various options many of you use, so I shouldn’t be saying anything whilst posing myself as any type of an authority. I most certainly am not. Far from it.
But I do understand the difference between 12.5% and 25% fees. You could easily argue that those fees are appropriate for the amount of eyes drawn in (as you said GC isn’t even on your radar). I would argue they’ve been a huge driver in GC going from selling lots and lots of bullion at its inception to regularly hammering six figure classic coins today, and it’s continually growing (and loyal) audience.
I was just prognosticating that the same dynamic is likely to evolve in the world market for the same reason. Perhaps foolishly, I’ll grant you. Wouldn’t be the first terrible call I’ve ever made.
I do think that GC still has a lot of room to grow and higher end world coins are an obvious area. They’ve been very successful at just about every phase of their evolution up to this point. I wouldn’t bet against them succeeding in any area of numismatic auctioneering. But I’m an admitted admirer and very satisfied customer.
Appreciate the dialogue as always.
There is a reason that 1804 dollars or silver continental dollars still go to HA or SB, despite the big name (is it Hansen?) behind GC.
And of course, many forget, to their detriment, that there is a lot more to this business than $$$. Personal relationships, professional competency, etc. still play a very big part of it, despite our Millennial brethren thinking only about the digital aspect. Yes, digital is important, as is the bottom line, but it’s not everything. Why do you think the big boys hire some of the folks they do?
(OK, I’m ready for the flames incoming….)
@Pruebas
You raised an issue that seems to be part of the larger problem… And that is the volume of coins being auctioned on a monthly basis. I am not going to do the math to come up with numbers if you combine the offerings from the top World Auction Houses. I suspect it is a significant number. I just don’t see how the market can continue to absorb the volume of coins offered at an unrealistic pace without impacting valuations…
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Every time I see GC selling the kinds of coins I collect they seem to go lower than I expect them to, I read that as them having a thin clientele base for pillar coinage (with the exception of Mexico perhaps.). I LOVE buying from GC, but selling…. Unless things change, I’d send them elsewhere.
I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.
Another one I was able to wrangle from the voracious hoard! I think it deserves an XF grade, personally.
I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.
I love Great Collections. From low fees to cheap and quick shipping, they make the auction experience great!
I think they are one of the go to places for US coins. As far as the World coins, the collector base seems very low in US to begin with so GC has well established competition.
A little advertising and a few larger collections will put them on the World coins map.
I think the big auctioneers follow this quite closely. Many numismatic articles that discuss auctions mention the fact that the market keeps absorbing all these coins. This makes me think it is tracked quite closely. I'm sure the low priced coins are not tracked as the auction houses work on volume, but the higher priced ones surely are.
As long as they can sell 1000 $100 coins, what difference does it really make to the auctioneer if they can get $200 for some of them as long as they move them and fill the pipeline again? Sure it makes a difference to the consignor, but for low priced coins, not so much to the auctioneer.
In fact, I have had auctioneers group several coins into a bulk lot even when the individual coins are worth over $500 each. I would highly recommend bidders consider bulk or group lots as there are often overlooked (by the auction house) goodies in them.
Just to circle back to the GC topic for a minute. This firm is often cited by US or former-US collectors as an alternative to HA or SB. I would argue that Stephen Album Rare Coins is a MUCH better alternative for world coins than GC. SARC has world numismatic experts on staff, they are friendly, and they show up at all the big world shows around the US and abroad. Their auctions also bring very good prices. (I think their back office needs work, but I'd rather sell a coin for $1000 and wait a month for payment than sell for $500 and get paid tomorrow. But that's just me.)
Many years ago in Long Beach, I was a bidder on a Mexican revolutionary lot. It consisted of about 20-30 coins, mostly common but there was a rarer variety included. The estimate was a couple of hundred dollars, I bailed at $1500. I found out later that the guy I was bidding against was Joe Flores.
Stephen Album Rare Coins often attends larger shows and their auctions often include noteworthy coins and medals. I make it a point to stop buy their table.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Stephen Album Rare Coins seems to be the place to find some great bargains. GC, at least for me, has very little good Italian that fits in my collection. Also Numismatic Rarities LLC has some great auctions. These are the people Ilook to to find some great collector coins under $1000
Resubmit! I agree on the XF. These are difficult to get a bead on without many comps, but this looks XF-ish, and certainly better than a 25.
Minor win, 1735/4 G J 1 Real:
This is the plate coin for the variety in Jara y Paiz, and was also part of the Richard Stuart collection in addition to being ex August. Stack's Bowers missed the provenance, I had to dig.
As we discussed in our PM's, there was no consistency on the prices for Peru pillars. Only, the higher quality coins realized what I'd describe as "strong" prices for the series, but none of these coins sold for high prices, relatively. Even with similar quality, the more common dates sold for only somewhat less vs. much scarcer ones.
Three of the prices were higher because I was an underbidder on two and won one. I can't say there was only one other bidder against me, but it's not that unlikely. The other five I won had minimal competition.
It would be curious to see what would happen if Peru was put near the beginning of auctions for a while. Would prices go up? Just a general wondering.
Maybe somewhat different but I think it's mostly just limited interest. In the last 15 years, I've won most I've attempted to buy, and there were a few really scarce ones in prior years (back to 2002) that I didn't know about from not making the effort to know about non-US sources.
“Minor” win? Pun intended…? 😂 incredible piece!
I will have to send the 1762 1/2R in again, it currently carries a 35, so it’s not a stretch to an XF.
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“Peru was VERY underbid” is quite an understatement. I picked up some early Peru for a song. The lack of decent lot descriptions certainly helped save me money. I love Stack’s but I feel they don’t have enough personnel to keep up with these sales. I really can’t complain though as I got the ones that I really wanted.
What did you get a hold of?
I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.
I just got a few
I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.
I was successful on two cobs. A Philip II 1/2 real that is perfectly centered and struck with complete legends. Also the 1684 two reales which is also extremely full for the issue. Took me forever to locate these types. Peru minor cobs are much, much rarer than those from Bolivia. I also bought a Guatemala bust piece which is well above average for the issue.
I see that you scored the 1752 two reales. I mulled that one over. Great buy!
Glad you let me have the 1752! It’sa tough one, and this one is very nice for the grade. The 1768 I got was not quite as nice, in my opinion, but every bit as rare.
I mulled over the 1/2 real 1577-1588 that you bought. I am putting together a type set for Peruvian Cobs, two of which I bought from the previous August sale. You did well on that 1/2R, they’re tough, but tend to be nicer when you can find them than the Bolivia versions. I talked myself out of it because so far all the ones I have carry dates, and the earlier ones don’t (albeit, the early ones are way cooler!)
I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.
One other cool thing about the Philip II 1/2 real is that it has the Star of Lima on the obverse. Technically, it is the 1st Peruvian coin which has this feature though it isn’t publicized at all like the Philip IV Star of Lima issues.