Gothic Florins

Reveries

Reveries

I did not mean to post this in a new discussion. How to I erase this entry.

ajaan

Very nice coin.

coinkat

This is an attractive coin worthy of its own thread. In general, Gothic Florins were spent and the surviving population in high grade is challenging. How rare is the 1865? I am not sure but in low circulated grades as in Good through Fine, I suspect the date can be found. Take a close look at the image you posted. Look at Victoria and below her bust near the rim. You will see die number 46. Florins, Shillings and even 6 pence coinage had die numbers from the mid 1860s through the late 1870s.

I checked the PCGS pop report and this coin looks to be the only MS example graded. So this goes full circle back to the condition rarity and the surviving population in MS. I do suspect there are collections in the UK that have MS examples which likely will remain uncertified which sort of adds to the challenge of estimating the surviving population by grade. The Cope and Rayner book on British Silver Coinage lists the 1865 as an R up through VF and R2 in EF and As Struck. Ii seems to be tougher than over dates of the era inc;uding 1857, 1858, 1859, 1864, 1869, 1870 and 1871 throigh 1874. I should add that the Cope Rayner book is alittle dated as it was published in 1975. It has not been updated to my knowledge, but I still refer to it as needed.

Reveries

So what makes this coin so very rare is the stop : after the date. I have looked for over 15 years for this coin.
I had it - sold it and bought it back again years later. Some of these Gothic Florin varieties are very hard to find and are listed in the Spink 6th Edition with some very good early numismatic work done by Maurice Bull.
Always interesting discussions..... Thank You!

7Jaguars

Nice coin! Personally I like the rare dates of currency florin like the 1854, 1862, 1863 in higher grades. I want to see a true uncleaned mint state 1854.

WillieBoyd2

A Gothic Florin is ready for her close-up in the 1944 serial movie "Raiders of Ghost City":

Gothic Florin and two other coins

More about the film:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1121615/raiders-of-ghost-city-1944-serial-film-european-coins-used-by-secret-agents

A real Gothic Florin:

Britain Florin 1883 (mdccclxxxiii)
Silver, 30.0 mm, 11.18 gm

coinkat

I was not even thinking about Gothic varieties other than the die numbers starting in 1864… my apologies. The Spink 6th edition seems that it might be from the 1970s. I don’t have editions that far back in my library. Just curious… does the work by Maurice Bull identify the 1865 stop after date by die numbers and/or die pairings? I am curious if the stop after the date exists on the 1865 other than die 46. That answer might provide some insight as to rarity.

Reveries

I should have been more specific with this as I spend a lot of time garnering this information. No apologies required. The Maurice Bull book of English Silver Coinage I am referring to came out in 2015. It has a a fairly comprehensive treatment of Florin Varieties. Now he lists the dies as 41, 43-49 and possibly 51 so we should have some greater availability? But alas I have not seen them show up? I need to purchase the most recent version of English Silver Coinage to see if any changes have been made to the catalogue.

Reveries

Love the comments about the movie which I did not know and will check out. Also I agree I would like to see a really nice MS 64 or 65 of a 1854 Florin. The 1863 Florin is probably one of the rarest coins ever to find. I know of only one which is in a friends collection and it is an MS64.

Reveries

Now they do not show up this way very often but when they do they are fabulous!

coinkat

Great looking coin. Thanks for the clarification on the Maurice Bull book

7Jaguars

A small caution about the [I believe] most recent Bull ESC book. There are two types with the usual MISSING the appendix which I had found helpful with the 6th edition. Also he is quite a bit off with his proof of record 20th C. issues, if you care.
Yes I have seen that MS64 1863 on the census, mine 63 but do have the proof of that year...

Reveries

Thanks for the update on the recent Bull ESC book. Good to know!

Reveries

7Jaguar: Would love to see that 63 Proof too one day. Bravo for collecting them. The most beautiful coins ever made!

7Jaguars

I will have to get it out of the SDB but graded 63+ and purchased from Spink quite a long time ago. I can not afford to collect proofs by date but do have the 1853 and 1881 - these used to be sporadically available in provincial auctions in GB but have pretty much dried up (or I am getting older and am not as vigorous in the chase!).