Merc Folks: Internet Bids for Heritage Auction.

Fairlaneman

Are you high internet bidder going into the live part of the Auction this afternoon/evening ?

Noticed a couple are pretty high compared to the Blue Sheet. The MS66 PCGS graded 1928S is set up to go for over $600 with the Blue Sheet having it at a little over $300.

Good Luck !!

Ken

cosmicdebris

Don't forget the 20% juice.

python1

I did some bidding in the live part last night, man its fast....I was bidding on a few buffalos...the prices were just too high..

barrytrot

Yeah, I had never seen one, so I had the window open while I worked and I was shocked at how most items went for over ccd-bid and many went for was over. And of course that's not even counting the 20% juice.

Also, the "expected range" was 100% nonsense. The coins were all WAY over that (at least the ones I saw).

Also, BE WARNED:

I placed a couple of bids on a couple of nice Morgans and if you mess up you will think, "ok I'm bidding $250" but by the time you un-click your mouse you have bid $500. SERIOUSLY. I wasn't unhappy as I wanted the coin, but I can definitely see how someone would accidently bid way more than they desired.

My recommendation is BID IN ADVANCE on ebay. Put in what your real max bid is and then hope that you win.

python1

Barry,
Good point, I too bid high , the software and my pc are not as fast as theirs, and I bid a few to high, glad they over bid me.

I wish I would have known, that no one from our GROUP was going to bid on the 1927D, like I was told by two members and one nonmemeber, I would have taken that coin. I guess next time, its dog eat dog..., I learned my lesson.

I did notice that most 99% of the coins I watched, went to the floor bidders, makes me wonder if they were there to shill bid or not, I guess I can answer that with a little research of the notes I took, to follow a few of the coins, as they come up again.... see who is selling them next time....

Anyway, it was fun to join in and learn from the experience.

DAM

Dennis,

makes me wonder if they were there to shill bid or not

I've wondered that too. I was out bid in a B&M auction a few months ago only to get a call the next day asking if I wanted the coin for my last bid. I was told the owner decided to let it go for that. Has anyone else had this happen?

I wonder if the owner had a reserve and decided my bid was close enough or if they had a ghost bidder in the audience running up the price. I'll never know, but it does make me leary bidding over the internet.

Regardless, I was pleased to get the coin.

DAM

keithdagen

Picked up a Peace dollar, but I am furious with this E-Bay LiveBidding crap.

In this auction, and Bowers last, I took an item to the floor with a website bid. On E-Bay, the only bid was the floor bidder (me), but in both circumstances, the bid placed on my behalf was $10-15 more than my last good bid on the website.

Bowers made good and reduced the price. Heritage better as well.

sonofagunk

Isn't it only 15% if you do NOT go through ebay?

gmarguli

Yes it is only 15% if you bid the other ways. That extra 5% they charge you for going thru eBay is for being too stupid to bid directly with Heritage.

TomB

Agree with Greg completely. Other than not being aware of being able to bid directly through Heritage I find it strange to see so many people bidding through ebay. Why? There are problems with it and you also pay an additional 5% fee. I don't get it.

TomB

As for what happened to DAM, I once bid on the wrong lot number in a Goldberg sale and ended up winning the coin. It was a nice coin, however, I meant to bid on the previous lot, not that one. The next day I called up Goldbergs and allowed them to offer it to the underbidder as long as they knew who the underbidder was and that the underbidder was fairly close to my winning bid. The only identity they knew as an underbidder in that lot was an internet bid that was too low, as far as I was concerned, so I kept the coin.

DIMEMAN

Dennis,

I was bidding on the 27-D in 65. And I won. No one on the floor raised my final internet bid. Which I have mixed emotions about. I thought it was a really nice coin. I even called a guy at Heritage recommended to me by John at DLRC to pull the coin and describe it to me. He said it was a very nice solid 65, so I put in a pretty strong bid. Ended up getting it for under graysheet bid including the 15%. I sure hope it is as nice as I think it is.

Jon

python1

I am glad that you won it, I really need that coin, and if it doesnt work for you let me have a shot at it....I hope it is as white as it appears online. But I am confused, when the auction was going on, it had a open bid from the floor, or so it showed on the screen, and no internet bids....not sure what that meant. Anyway, keep me in mind. Thanks for letting me know you won, I feel better knowing one of us actually got one.

DIMEMAN

Dennis,

I think the winning bid online is then the opening bid on the floor. Does anyone else know how that works?

Jon

Fairlaneman

Jon:

That looks like how it works. I was bidding on the toned 34P and got outbid on the Heritage site so I went to Ebay to place a higher bid. The Heritage Site bid showed as the first floor bidder and then my ebay bid popped up. Finally got outbid by a real floor bidder.

Glad to see you got the 27D. I had it on the Ebay watch list but did not see anything but floor bidders so I thought you had lost it.

Did anyone else get any of the Dimes? Rick was after the 28S but it went pretty high so my guess is he's still looking for the date.

Dennis:

If My conserved 27D ever gets back from NGC it will be For Sale. I'm guessing they will conserve it as the Toning was Ugly even to me.

Greg and Tom:

How else can a person place a bid if they get outbid on the Heritage Site ? Maybe stupid in your opinions but its the only way I know to get another bid in. If there is another way please let me know.

Ken

gmarguli

Greg and Tom:

How else can a person place a bid if they get outbid on the Heritage Site ? Maybe stupid in your opinions but its the only way I know to get another bid in. If there is another way please let me know.

It's simple. Bid on the Heritage site your max. Then if you get outbid it doesn't matter. Someone was willing to pay more than you. If you bid your max on the Heritage site then there is no reason to use eBay. There is no reason to get "another" bid in. The people who want "another" bid are the people who tried to be cheap and didn't bid their max.

Fairlaneman

OK I see now. I suppose the people at Auctions only bid once also. Is this true ? Geez if they bid more than once they must be cheap. Guess I have the wrong opinion of a Auction.

I should have know better than to ask a reasonable question here now days. Well anyway Thanks for the answer.

keithdagen

Ken,

You're not supposed to get caught up in "auction fever" from the internet

quattrocoins

Ken:

As Keith stated, I didn't want to get caught-up in the frenzy. I put my bids in at Heritage, but was also being cheap! LOL
Was outbid before the show got goin'!

Congrats, Jon. Hope it's a keeper!

Don

TomB

Ken, I'm not certain what the problem is with the concept of bidding your max on the Heritage site. You simply bid what you want and can afford and let the auction go from there. If someone else has the resources and values the coin more than you do then you don't get the coin; if you have the resources and value the coin the most then you get the coin. Comparing the Heritage web site bids with the live auction is highly inaccurate, in my opinion. After all, they don't line everyone up at the live auction and tell them to submit one bid, they move the bidding up in increments. If you have a level head and a strategy there is no need to be present at the auction, neither is there a need to watch it live. Of course, an advantage to being there live for the auction is the ability to see the coins before they sell, however, from what I can see of this discussion the live viewing of any lots is not the topic at all.

gmarguli

Fairlaneman, since you seem to think that we are unreasonable in our answers, please tell us why you didn't bid your max on the Heritage site. I'd love to hear your explanation why your bid on the Heritage site wasn't your max.

IrishMike

Tom, several good points. I spoke with two people who were at the live bidding and was told the ebay bidding was holding up and slowing down the bidding. Depending on who was manning the computer some of the bids were ignored. This happened to me several months ago, I have a cable modem, new Dell and my bid did not get registered in time. I decided then and there not to attempt any more Ebay bids. Up until midinight Saturday I was high bidder on a quarter by $250 and was surprised Sunday morning to see that someone had overbid me at the last second. It was a pop 47/0 coin which I had thought I had put in a ridiculously high bid. I refused to bid on it Sunday evening out of principal. No way was I going to pay 20% to these guys. So no floor bids and I lost the coin for 32 dollars and some change. Am I upset because I lost the coin no, because I bid based on a lot research what I was willing to pay for it. Am I ticked that they have two levels of fees, you're damn right I am. I am finished with Heritage's on line live auctions. They can squeeze that extra 5% out of some one else. In fact I have decided to work in vacations with some of the major shows and bid live from now own or just continue purchasing through dealers. This was a registry upgrade for the new owner and as long as this situation continues to raise prices, I think it is a good idea to take a step back from the market.

Fairlaneman

In these live auction things I like to see how the bidding goes on the site (Heritage) to see what the value might be according to other bidders. Then if the Coin is something that I believe is under priced,according to the bids already posted, the option of going to the Ebay site to place a bid seems logical to myself.

The Coin in this Auction was a Toned coin that we all know can go for some insane money sometimes, so when the first bid was beat on the Heritage site, which was the feel the worth of the coin bid, then another bid was placed on the Ebay site which was My Max Bid for the coin. That is and was My logic for using both sites to place bids.

Actually the Coin in question was a coin I could take or leave, so yes I was being Cheap. If the coin was something I really wanted then another approach would be used but I would still use both sites if they were needed.

Rarely do I put what may be considered My max bid on anything as I really enjoy the Dickering part of coin transactions. This applys not only to auctions like this but also regular Ebay auctions, coin shows and even dealing with the local coin shops. The final Max Bid IMO is whether the coin goes home with me.

If this is a sign of being cheap, so be it, I'm Cheap and that is how it is going to stay.

Ken

cdmead

Do you win many auctions that way? And if so, are the coins nice?

IMHO, if you don't win many auctions, you might want to rethink your strategy and/or finances.

Just my fifth of a Merc,

Charlie

DAM

Ken,

I agree with your desire to be active in the bidding process. It's the thrill of the "win" that you get after a bidding war. Putting in a max. bid is just as effective. But to some watching and participating is where the fun is.

DAM

TomB

Sounds good to me.

python1

Well, stupid I am not, but maybe ignorant as to the statement made about the using the ebay auction site instead of the heritage site, I was not aware of the two working hand in hand. (should have spent more research time on that part)

Ken:
Well said. When the term "auction" was first used (and it was well before ebay), the "auction" was where two or more people tried to out do the other, and that in itself, turned into more of the prize than the prize itself. I agree with your approach....... (here comes the flames)...lol

Now lets get back to the real issue.... I want that 27D...

edited for spelling.

keithdagen

Does anyone know the bid hierarchy?

I know that a Heritage web bid is treated like a floor bid when competing against tying bids from E-Bay. How is the Heritage web bid treated versus "live" floor bids?

Fairlaneman

Keith:

It appears to me that the Web bid was the opening bid in a given auction, anyway that is what happened on the dime that is under discussion here. That is why I said that it only made sense to use both sites. If the coin was something I really wanted and I had the high Web bid that got took out how else would I bid again without being there in person ? No matter how high you bid there is, most of the time, someone who will bid higher so why limit yourself to one high bid only.

While watching the auctions I noticed that many items opened way above the Heritage opening bid with no more bids to follow. Obviously the Floor bidders figured the opening bid was too much to pay for the item so they did not bid. To Me this is a sign that the Web Bidders got carried away with the amounts they posted for bids. True they won the coin but at how much more than if they would have participated in the aution as a auction and not just a High bid posting board.

Dennis:

When the Darn thing gets back and if it looks much better than what it did when I sent it in you have first shot. Just remember though that I do not have a clue on how to buy dimes so the Price will be "Outrageous" to cover my initial cost.

Charlie:

Not many Auctions have been won by me in this format. In the same vain though I have not wanted to win them as the Prices are too high. I am still trying to figure out why I have to re-think my finances. Hey help me out on this. Thanks in advance.

Dam:

Dam I Agree.

Ken

keithdagen

Ken,

I thought that in many cases, the "opening" bid was way too low -- in a lot of cases, the website bidding had already pulled the coin to its true market value and there was nothing "extra" about the piece that would cause an in-person bidder to add more to the coin's perceived value.

cdmead

When I said that you might want to rethink your finances, I meant that you might want to concentrate all your available funds on a particular coin and win it, rather than splitting your money around several coins and not getting anything.

This, of course, assumed that you wanted the coin(s) in the first place because, personally, I can't see participating in an auction that I don't want to be successful in.

Charlie

Fairlaneman

Charlie:

You must mean a coin like This This last purchase is why I was not real serious in this auction.

Thanks for the explanation you gave.

Ken

cdmead

Nice!

And to think, I was wondering if you were one of those people who bid $1 on every auction lot on the off off off off chance he or she might win.

I stand corrected.

Charlie

Fairlaneman

Thanks Charlie. When I see a coin I want I'm Dead Serious about it. Problem is they are not around very much.

Ken

DIMEMAN

To all:

I personally like to use the max bid instead of counting on getting in the live ebay thing because of my sluggish computer. I didn't want to lose the 27-D dime because I or my computer couldn't act fast enough.

I decided what I would be willing to pay for the 27-D and entered that as my max bid. Then I'm done and just sit and wait.

Sometimes doing it this way keeps some under bidders out also. Anyway that is why I prefer this way.

I'm just glag I won and it was below my max.

Jon

Mark

Greg:

There is a sense in which it might make sense to put in your max bid on the Heritage web site but then be willing to increase your bid on ebay during the live auction. In particular, if you see that the coin you are bidding on has signficant floor activity, you might well infer that the people actually able to examine the coin think highly of it. This inference might then influence your opinion of the coin so that the maximum you are willing to bid rises. In the economic's literature, this situation is called something like a "common value problem." I don't recall the precise name because that branch of economics is not my area of expertise.

Now, that said, I do tend to put my max bid on the Heritage (or more commonly the B&M) web site, particuarly on coins I really want (a'la Ken's strategy!). I save my "game playing" for ebay...

Mark