1876 CC Seated Half - Genuine?
Meltdown
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This was an ebay purchase. In hand, the surfaces are slightly porous and it is not so dark. At first glance I thought it was cleaned, but there are no hairlines. It weighs 12.5g
The CC is widely spaced. It does appear to have luster when swirled. It just looks "off".
I'd appreciate your insights. Is it cleaned? Is it counterfeit? Is it fine and just been messed with at some point?
Sellers photos:
A couple different angles from my phone:
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Comments
I agree. Doesn't feel right.
Interesting.
Could it have been (expertly) reengraved?
I vote fake.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
The head looks strange to me.
Any time I see that porous grainy look to the surfaces, I think "fake." The multiple photos from different angles are very helpful.
It looks really nice .
Why is it not in a TPG holder?
Sort of interesting how the progression of the images further create and add to that suspicion.
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The coin has the die markers of the 1876-CC WB-11 variety, so it's either a genuine example or a copy of one.
http://old.lsccweb.org/BillBugertBooks/Bugert-Vol-II-CC.pdf
If it is a fake, it's scary good from a visual standpoint. I have a saved search for 1876 CC halves. I have been watching them for a few years. Mostly they are often either slicked out junk, high grade slabbed and expensive or very obvious Chinese counterfeit. The eBay seller photos look very convincing.
That was also what jumped out at me as suspicious, though the rest of the coin seems ok, at least via small iPhone images.
I hope you have return privileges although that doesn’t mean anything nowadays.
This makes me pause. The seller described it as WB-11. I do not know variaties off hand but am researching... I'm leaning toward altered surfaces but possibly genuine.
That seems like a reasonable hypothesis.
At a certain point, the surfaces can be altered enough that it's hard to tell one way or the other if the coin is genuine.
Either way, it seems like you have a good argument to return the coin, if that is what you'd like to do.
If I was requesting an eBay return on this particular coin, I'd emphasize that there was nothing in the listing description or photos that would have alerted me to the extremely altered/porous surfaces of the coin. The seller photos don't show it and the listing doesn't mention it. The surfaces indicate that the coin is damaged, at the very least, and I'd add that the surfaces are so altered that I was not even able to determine whether the coin is genuine. I'd be sure to attach the photos you took showing the porous surfaces. That should be enough to satisfy eBay and allow you to return the coin as not-as-described.
I suspect RedRocket got it.
Ed. S.
(EJS)
When in doubt pass
Looks "off" to me. Here's a 77-CC. Compare the nose line:
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running like a water color in the rain...."
I made a deal with the ebay seller. He's asked me to send it off to our hosts. I happen to have 4 vouchers I've been meaning to use. He has agreed to pay for the service and refund if it comes back cleaned or not genuine. We've had a good back and forth conversation going even before I requested the return.
I'm going to choose to trust him at his word.
To be cont'd
bookmarked
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Wishing you the best of outcome.
Highly sus, does it ring when spun? That would determine if it was die struck or cast at least.
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Good for the two of you, behaving like reasonable gentlemen. The world of eBay could use more of that.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
the EBay guarantee has a time limit, so you are potentially giving that up -- not a good idea.
Looks cast. Can't wait to hear the outcome.
Sounds like a good seller.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
My guess is genuine, environmental damage, cleaned, re-toned.
This is the most likely correct answer.
If it's a fake, it's a really good one.
If I was going to that much trouble, I'd probably use a decent planchet.
I can only assume genuine, environmental damage.
Great thread. Please keep us informed of the results.
I can't come to a conclusion regarding genuineness from the photos, but something is off. It doesn't look quite right.
odd forehead-nose combo
The reverse shows casting marks near the period in DOL. and the nearest arrow. These even show up on the ebay pix. Porosity as already mentioned. Questionable authenticity.
My prediction:
PCGS returns it in a 'XF details, genuine/altered surfaces' holder.
What is the diameter? If a casting, should be slightly undersize. Also, inspect edge for evidence of a sprue hole.
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And look behind the ear.
I enjoy the pretty smile and profile on Liberty's face on these but I'm not seeing that on this coin.