PCGS 1863 J-299 Cent Possibly Misidentified
TrickleCharge
Posts: 387 ✭✭✭✭
Came across a listing for this pattern cent that sold recently. Could PCGS have incorrectly assumed this was struck on a bronze planchet? Looking at the pictures in the slab, it has normal coin alignment, not medal alignment. This would be uncommon for J299. The reverse die seems to have been quite heavily used before striking this coin. I could not find any other examples of J299 with a similar reverse die crack.
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Comments
I love how everybody constantly rips PCGS on there own forum
Micah Langford - https://www.oldglorycoinsandcurrency.com/
i wouldn't say this has started as a rip
perhaps, after discussion, a correction to the certification can be made or the op enlightened as to why it is a j-299
https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1863-1c-j-299-bn/60453
https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1863-1c-j-299-bn/60454
The reverse die crack looks like a match to "Variety 18a" on this web site:
https://indiancentvarieties.com/1863_variety018.html
I wonder if the brown surface coloring in the photo you posted is from something like a fire?
The obverse rim seems to show the usual tan color for Copper Nickel in places.
It’s not “everybody”, it’s not “constantly”, the post wasn’t necessarily a “rip” and it’s not “there” (as opposed to “their”). Other than that, I don’t disagree with a lot of what you wrote.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I love how Mark rips on absolute pronouns and adverb crutches; (without sarcasm)
That does look like the reverse die. Obverse date position appears the same as well. Not sure if the 9 degree rotation is there, but here are some in slab pics from the listing. Good find.
The difference between a thin bronze planchet and a thick copper nickel planchet are pretty obvious so I doubt if PCGS misattributed it. I have a J-299 that is coin turn and up until now the only coin turn J-299 that I've ever seen. When I get home I'll take a look to see if it has the reverse die crack.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I'm not sure if planchet thickness alone would be a good identifier as J299 was stuck on both thin and thick bronze planchets. Keep us posted on any die cracks. I looked at a lot of J299 examples from auction archives, but I don't think I found any to compare that were coin turn.
Mark is a perfectionist (which is needed, especially in this arena) and it shows. If coin graders were as lax as many here seem to be okay with, would you question their skills? Would you trust their grades? Would you buy a slab with an insert that read: First Day of Isue or Early Releese? Of course not….because we demand 100% when we purchase coins/currency. We see posters complaining about graders ‘missing things’…..so Mark pointing out the correct usage of a word is no different in my opinion.
What is the weight?
Looks like corroded copper-nickel in these photos, but it needs to be examined in hand.
Check out the cops hat!
Gramlarb Police 😂
It's the name of the town. 😁
I'll have it correct it on the next version
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@jmlanzaf Grammarville Police Solice….😂
LOL. It was smaller on my screen, I thought that was just a decoration.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Red is taken aback by the driver's steering wheel.
Is that even road worthy?
So Many Questions,
Red R.
And the bikini model is way out of proportion to the car on which she's sitting.
Plus, the driver is on the left-hand side of the road. (If the image is from the UK then it belongs in the World Coins Forum, but they'll have their own set of complaints).
I thought AI stood for Artificial *Intelligence". 🤔
How much time do you want me to put into this joke?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
It's been too much already, but I was worried about Red and 2windy...
@JBK
@jmlanzaf
I’m happy with the addition of the Amazon woman and amused that @oldglorycoins was so taken aback by @MFeld that he actually ripped the steering wheel off the column!
Are we sure it's an "Amazon woman" and not simply a Cooper Mini police car?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@jmlanzaf We most certainly are not…
i did not know cu-ni corroded like that. is that a common look for a heavily corroded cu-ni cent? how pervasive is the problem? etc?
I don't know how common it is, but here is a copper nickel cent with a similar appearance.
My gut tells me that this is not a J-299 but a corroded CN Cent. We had another situation a while back where NGC misidentified a 1860 CN corroded cent as a 1866 J-456 pattern. It happens every now and then, but I feel that all patterns should have metallurgic analysis done as a confirmation on metal content at least.
would a specific gravity setup be precise enough to help?
Unlikely. Copper and bronze have similar densities and with the corrosion...
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I know a guy that can't string two grammatically correct sentences together but can weld pretty much anything that can be welded. Sometimes one skill has nothing to do with the other.
Mark isn’t in that category…..not even close. But nice try……
Nice try at what?
At trying to insinuate that he can’t be a great grader and write /use English correctly. I beg to differ. But you can think whatever you want.
Actually, that's not what he was implying at all. Je was saying that the two skills aren't connected. The allegation had been made previously that his grammar precision was related to his grading precision.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I doubt it’s a 299. Probably just discolored, which isn’t unusual for CN cents. I’d encourage PCGS to call it back and test it.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.