anyone graded with sgc lately..
olb31
Posts: 4,127 ✭✭✭✭✭
i just got my rear end handed to me. I have graded with them around 20 times and this one was by far the worst. The one I like the most got a 7.5. I was thinking at a minimum 8 or 8.5. 1975 garvey. Centering was a 9 or 10, surface was the best I have seen on a 75, not print dots, smooth, felt almost brand new. corners sharp, no white showing at all.
1972 - 1989. Essentially whatever I thought I would get at a minimum, I got one grade lower. It was the most 6's I have ever received from SGC in one order i have graded about 1000 cards. The new ones got 8's. no 1970's got an 8.
Tough day for me. The worst one, $$$ was a perfectly centered 1975 Brett, had very minimal right corner issue, the rest of card was great, got a 6. the centering alone should have gotten it a 7. oh well.
Comments
I got a similar order back from them early last year and that was it for me. The worm has turned there.
Sounds like SGC is morphing into PSA standards. Sorry about the submission results ...
whats funny is i sent a defective 1975 nolan ryan i thought 5 and hoped for a 5.5. but i got a 6. the 1975 brett is way better conditioned than the ryan, its not close. the ryan had 2 compromised corners. the brett looked like a 7.5 to 8, the ryan looked like a 5 or 5.5 and i got 6 on both. it makes no sense.
frustrating...
From what I've seen old school 2,3,4,5,6 are still the same grades and old school 7,8,9 are now 2,3,4,5,6 as well. The variances in the actual condition of grades 2-6 can be astounding... What I don't get is SGC I don't think has any large submitting entities so why hold back on doling out the actual grades?
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
What was once a process with allowable boundaries being evaluated by highly skilled people in the field of card grading is now an analysis trap perpetuated by so-called professional people who try to identify every technical flaw which can be found to downgrade a card from your expectations and you will pay good money for the privilege, and even more good money if you're dissatisfied and want to try again. There, I said it.
My take on the reason for SGC is now UNDERGRADING cards and orders are seeing a large variance in grades given with no rhyme or reason is this...I have discussed this before on why PSA vintage undergrading started to occur about 3-4 years ago... Now I'll start by saying it is NOT because standards have gotten stricter but that the grader performance evaluation POLICY has changed. Now I'm not 100% sure this is the reason but IT IS THE ONLY one I can think of. Now most of you on this board have extensive experience assessing a cards condition and about 3-4 years ago you began to discuss wide variances in your results of your graded orders with the AVERAGE grades being much much lower than your historic experience with grading...I experienced this as well...The only REAL reason that I can see is that the way a grader's performance is evaluated has changed in that if a grader gives out too many high grades REGARDLESS of what condition the cards are they are deemed too lenient and their performance is lowered verses another grader has a lower year end grade average. So a grader that gives out lower average grades as compared to their coworker is deemed a "better tougher grader" and maybe gets a raise. Fresh MINT cards from unopened product examined by you and sent in receive appreciable lower grades with results all over the dart board than you have ever experienced in the past. So graders that are now receiving you guys orders are LIKLEY thinking wow these are some real nice cards but if i give them too high of grades then my average grade yield will be high and I might risk being deemed a not so good grader and not get a good performance evaluation. So they will arbitrarily give you a few 5s, 6's or what have you to keep there grades given average down for fear of being too easy grader, Now when PSA purchased SGC this grader evaluation policy likely has flowed to SGC's way of assessing a grader's performance and whala your 1975 Steve Garvey gets a 7.5... It's not that the standards have gotten stricter but the grader performance evaluation policy has changed giving the perception that the standards are stricter...If you still believe the standards are different then I'll tighten them again next year so your todays mint 8's and 9's will be tomorrows 5's and 6's and todays 5's and 6's will be tomorrows 8's and 9's...Yes the levee will break and the bottom may drop out but please please still Rock on!
I've graded just under 200 cards with SGC since 2021. Overall, grades have been "accurate" (spot on or within a grade or half grade of my opinion). During that time, I've had only 3-4 "head scratchers". Most recently a 1952 Topps common that came back a 2.5 - not the 4 or 5 I predicted. Still looking for that crease or wrinkle! Another noteworthy exception being a '53 Bowman black and white (2.5 instead of a 4/5). I usually attribute these to surface issues I missed and move on, as most cards are staying in my collection.
The biggest difference I've seen is in the processing time. It used to be 2 or 3 weeks door to door. Now my package sits at a Boca post office for about a week before being "received" by SGC. Then its about 2 months before I see my cards.
I'm still in a "wait and see" mode. If our opinions don't line up anymore, the lead times get to 4-5 months, or price goes up, I may stop grading altogether, I'm fine collecting raw cards or buying already graded cards. It's just a shame Collector's feels the need to make these changes to a company that was fine as is.
Before grading companies…I unknowingly bought raw altered/trimmed cards a few times. I welcomed the beginning of graded cards in 1991 or there about. Today…I only buy cards which are graded preferably by PSA. With only two (2) or three (3) cards on my want list, I am almost finished wheeling and dealing…and I can enjoy my collection of 60-62 cards down from a high of 141 cards…and happy that it is a mix of iconic cards with vintage cards from the 50s to early 70s with 63% of my collection either 8.5 or 9…and 50% with MBA Diamonds.
Every time one of these threads pops up, I imagine members of the staff over there talking about us….
“Hey look, another conversation about us and our, um, techniques. Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaa!!!!!”
SGC needs better labels. Their label looks like something I could print on my laser printer. Seems easy to fake.
I liked the old one where they were using a 100 point scale. I didn't understand the numbering. But it said the condition like NM and stuff.
Funny how everybody used to applaud SGC for the fair, consistent grading.
What could have changed......hmmmm
I think what they should be more concerned about is the fact these type posts are popping up less and less frequently which indicates that collectors are giving up the interest. That would be a vicious cycle.
Grading companies don't care about vintage.
They are getting swamped with Wembie's, Flaggs, Maye's, Ohtani's, Pokeman, Chrome Refractors 1of1's, 1of2's, blah, blah, blah....
They gladly take our money and attribute the same grading standards to vintage as they do to modern, and as we P&M - they gladly cash the checks.
I'm up in October and I'll be damned if they get another red cent out of me...
And for clarity ... The PM reference has nothing to do with any individual submitter, but the submitting populous as a whole!
Sorry if it was misconstrued by any single submitter
sjjs28@comcast.net
Collector of Baseball Hall of Famer's and Stars, 1965 Embossed, 1968 Topps Game and 1969 Topps Decals
Registered Sets: 1965 Embossed, 1968 Topps Game, 1969 Topps Decals
thanks guys for all the nice posts. i was very pist at the time (especially about the brett), but i guess there were a few upsides
1977 payton psa 6 to sgc 7
1975 yount psa 6 to sgc 7 --- very centered card
and i guess the 1975 ryan came back sgc 6
1984 sandberg 8 -- perfectly centered front and back.
1985 mattingly 8
Sorry about the results. Nothing brewing....
it could be that they are hammering vintage because there is a limited supply. they are not making anymore 1959 topps. to keep the wheels running on vintage, you need constant resubs. if they grade very conservatively, people will keep resubmitting trying for that extra number.
modern stuff comes out every year. a well that will never run dry
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
hmmm wow you have ALOT of posts/participation but that is NOT the reason...yes people crack and resubmit but believe me it is not that many cards that get cracked out compared to the total graded ... my guess is maybe 7% if lucky...believe me both PSA and SGC don't expect business this way..matter of fact they $%#$ prefer not to have that type of %$#$ crack out business...they want to try to get it right the first time...also I have seen/heard that their new holders contain some flexible type compound that makes it EXTREMELY hard to crack out a card without ruining the card... read my explanation above as to THE why...
^ your reason is certainly plausible and working in a huge firm i can certainly attest that stupidity usually rules the day.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
Sometimes (maybe a lot of the times) POLICIES are enacted both in government, businesses and yes relationships
that have a different or more extreme outcome than intended... As you are aware people are always playing games in business, life etc. and if a change in the grader performance evaluation policy was made 3-4 years ago then it is likely the graders try to NATURALLY play a game to get a good evaluation... Most every employee in any business wants to have a good performance and hence games are played to achieve this... As mentioned above you can imagine the rest... Like artists a grader should be free of any statistical judgement on their grades they give to cards and not have to play games to get a good performance evaluation....as always play that music long and loud !!!!!
I've pretty much quit grading altogether. I like mid grade vintage so I can buy raw or already graded at decent prices.
I have a nice pile I was going to grade (50's-70's ; probably grade 5-8 a few years ago) no interest in waiting 4 months for a stack of 4's and 5's at $25+ a pop.
I sent off a 30 card order a few months back and I have mixed emotions about the results. My 1954 Topps Kaline that I thought would maybe get a 1.5 on a good day got a 2 somehow, so that's definitely a plus. My utterly mangled t206 Nap Lajoie got a numerical grade, so another plus. But, my 1933 Goudey Hornsby that I thought was an easy 2.5 got a 1.5, so definitely a con. The color on it looks like it was printed yesterday, and there are only a few small hairline creases on the back. I just find it hard to agree with SGC that my subpar Al Kaline is in better condition than my Hornsby...
My dad was on the verge of depression when his 52 Bowman Willie Mays that we all thought was an easy 5.5 to 6 came back Authentic evidence of trimming. He bought it from the original owner who would never dare to trim any of his cards. Maybe it was factory cut a little small, but he held it up next to his 52 bowman Campy and there was little to no size difference. So, yeah, definitely a con.
I am working on getting another order ready, and hopefully my gorgeous vgex-ex 33 Goudey Cochrane doesn't suffer from the Hornsby curse. Wish me luck 🤞
just now seeing this response. funny you are trying to make truth statements when you are in fact simply speculating.
you have no idea if there are employee performance indicators that are affecting grading standards. you also have no idea the amount of cards cracked and resubmitted.
I think you do not know quite as much as you purport to know...
unless you have some firsthand knowledge of the deep inner workings of SGC/PSA/BGS, you are simply speculating.
Just like everyone else.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Of course alot of things in life come down to speculation (even the Bible seems to be speculation at times... NO? ) but there are certain degrees of speculation that are believed more than other speculations... For example, I speculate you drove your car today and that you will likely have eggs tomorrow for breakfast...Now people can believe this or choose not to believe it but I tell you he who tells the BEST story wins the prize... CAPISH?
strange. very strange indeed...
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
.
Great. I just sent in about 20 cards last month. I hadn't sent them anything for almost a year. I refuse to pay PSA prices for crap grades. Need a new source I guess
I had a big question on 1, the rest looked fair. now the 1 should have been at least a 7 or 7.5 over a 6. but that's the wya it goes. you should be ok.
just got PO'd at the moment.
Should have them back soon. They say they are have to extend turnaround times due to submissions. So somebody is sending them cards to grade.
Best Post of the thread!
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
I haven't graded lately but their customer service in other areas is sorely lacking. I have a reholder order on business day 25 with no end in sight. I emailed the other day and the reply wasn't even responsive to my order...the rep talked about grading and post-grading being the most time-consuming steps in the process.
PSA should value their customers. Taking people for granted usually doesn't work well forever.
Tomorrow will mark the 6 month anniversary of my cards sitting on a table at PSA.
A table is better than the floor. So at least you have that going for you. Good luck
Hmm, no. I think it's a shelf.
Actually, I think Craig44 I very advanced. If he does say something my ears are open
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
I did a sub with 10 or so 1948 Bowman BKB. Best examples I had accumulated over 10 years. Impeccable centering and surfaces. Very minimal edge and corner wear. All 4s and 5s. Compare them to older SGC 4 and 5s and it’s laughable: so basically I paid $15 for a one touch.
Kiss me twice.....let's party.
Sorry to hear that. Gets frustrating. The only bright spot seems to be vintage is going up right much. I made several record sells on SGC 8's even more than the PSA's, lately
How is that a bright spot for nathaniel??
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
Pretty sure that's Dolphin bro's bright spot. But, we all got a little something bright in our lives, don't we?
Last I checked 1940's cards were considered vintage, but maybe for you they are considered new?
Seems like a bright spot for you selling a Vintage card with a high grade, certainly not Nathaniel who's cards may have undeservedly received low grades.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
I have no idea what they sell for, but I do no vintage 4's and 5's are going up decently. a SGC 8 for those cards would probably sell for a lot, I doubt he was expecting 8's, maybe 6's.
I have my last 3 submissions now 6 weeks past due date.
They now are posting a little blurb with an apology for the delay
That sucks..but one thing I do like about PSA is that don't charge you until they are done. Beckett held my cards for 11 months one time and had my money the whole time.
They are grading nearly 3 million cards per month. So over 15 million cards have been graded while your just sits there. Incredibly pathetic.
I was under the impression they do that for 1 reason: up-charge when/if FMV increases during the time the item is out of your hands.
IMHO the fair and honest thing woudl be for date the submission form is completed should lock in the FMV. Shipping delays and PSA back log should not increase the agreed upon price -- yet they do!
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
Circling back here...I asked for an update yesterday and was told today it would take another 15-17 business days. It's currently on business day 33 when the estimate at submission was 15-20. So 48-50 business days for a reholder of one card. Amazing.
Horse, carrot and stick.