Start of Die Study - 1956 25C FS-901.
Maxvan1
Posts: 79 ✭✭
I've spent WAY more than I should have collecting 1956 quarters, and now I'm trying to turn it into research project...
I've been purchasing 1956 'Type B' Washington Quarters for almost four years now — I have selected 35 examples for a die study. I plan to take detailed photographs and identify each die pairing.
Based on my preliminary examinations, I think only one reverse die was paired with multiple obverse dies. Assuming that is correct, I should be able to create a progression set based on reverse die markers (primarily a die crack through the Eagle's left wing) showing the order in which the obverse dies were used.
Granted, I might not have all the pairings, but hopefully the community can plug any holes.
It's going to take me a while to photograph all these but I will post everything here once I do.
TYA for constructive input!
Comments
Sounds interesting
I've got a few i could try to image. Nice to see one of my flock resting in your collection.
I appreciate your focus on the rev die use. I just searched a bag of approx 200 Wash Qtrs and found a Type B 63, 64 and one Type C 64-D. Good luck with your project. Peace Roy
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I removed two that were damaged (improperly cleaned; acid damage), so I am down to 33 examples.
This ANACS MS63 is obviously the latest and likely the final die state. I note that the reverse die is close to broken with a crack running all the way through EPU, down the Eagle's right wing. The obverse die shows heavy deterioration, especially noticeable on the Y in LIBERTY, and a thin die crack through Washington's forehead. I have only one example with this die pair, and I suspect very few were struck in this state.
I believe the next oldest die state includes these two under graded PCGS examples. I note that the reverse die cracking is less progressed, and the obverse is almost certainly a different die than the ANACS example above. I conclude that this obverse is a different die because the die crack through Washington's forehead is different - this obverse die is actually broken with a die chip* visible, and the crack is in a slightly different location. Deterioration on LIBERTY is significantly less - Y remains bold. Note the faint N/S die polish marks on the obverse fields.
I believe the next oldest die state includes these three MS66 examples. I believe die pairing is the same as above based on the N/S die polish marks in the fields. The die polish marks in this state are significantly stronger. LIBERTY is even more bold than above. Reverse die cracks are even less progressed. Three out of four MS66 are this die state and pairing. Approximately six out of 33 total are in this die state and pairing. Several examples have metal shaving strikethroughs in the forehead (e.g. PCGS example below). I am not 100% convinced this is the same observe die as the two die chip* examples pictured above -- conceivably the debris that caused strikethroughs could have caused the chip. Input welcome.
More to come later. I think there may actually be TWO reverse dies, but I am not certain.
Here is an album of all 33 examples. https://ibb.co/album/1fJW9s
FYI, you are misusing the term "cud"; there is no obverse cud on those coins.
Thanks. Still learning.
Is there a correct term? Die chip*?
I am referring to this.
Yes, die chip.
Good luck in your research. Another source of pics is in CoinFacts.
To help in your die progression. some of them also have some reengraving on their wings. The lower row of the wings next to the body occasionally have reengraving between feathers as shown by this one (frequently seen in proof quarters).
Thanks! I will check for that.
Here is an actual proof to compare. It looks like an exact match to me. This would suggest the reengraving occurred prior to the die being used for circulation strikes.
Proof below:
Example FS-901 for comparison:
Yes, the reengraving is on the Type B master die.
I was stuck for a while but I think I've made a bit more progress...
Are these three different obverses? The die cracks are very similar, but I don't think they're the same. Thoughts?
1
2
3
Another obverse No.2 from above. It seems like this obverse tends to have toning, perhaps a coincidence or possibly came in uncirculated mint sets? *Edit: Actually this one doesn't match. I'm not sure which one this is.
Another example, I believe an earlier die state of the same obverse No.2 from above. Again, notable toning. *Same.
I am 80% of the way there, but the last 20% is turning out to be quite tough... I created a Google Sheets document with images of the coins so they can more easily be sorted and compared. Be sure to scroll left and right for additional images. You can sort and filter using the headings.
LINK: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HvnH_TNMQ1XO7cm3NzcVvP5wSVdEVSZ9p2NvX0nFNcQ/edit?gid=0#gid=0
I have categorized the obverse dies in Column E. I currently have seven categories of obverse dies and/or die states, but I'm not certain they're all different. There are also a few examples I have not been able to categorize yet and that may be unique. I think I will need to go back and take additional pictures to continue progressing...
One thing in particular that is throwing me off is that certain examples have SIGNIFICANT deterioration on the tailfeathers, but lesser progression of the EPU die crack. Raw Example 15, for example, has almost no tailfeathers and no crack through EPU. Perhaps grease fill? Or just the way the strike came out? See Google Sheets document for images.
How many days do you feel a type B reverse was used on the presses? What percent of 1956 circulation quarters have a type B reverse? Is cataloging the obverses of any help or just compounding the work on your project?
From my personal searches, I feel there are less than 1 per 200, maybe 1 per 500 or 1 per 1000.
It sounds like> @davewesen said:
Cataloging the obverses is the project. To the extent you're asking what's the point — I mean, fair question...
The project is an evolution from my personal assessment that this variety is undervalued and attempting to corner the circulating market. This is the key date for the set and there is only a single reverse die. I am hoping a complete progression set will be worth more than the sum of the parts.
I think it's a fun way to collect.
How do you figure there is only one reverse die?
All have the same reengraving.
Well now I'm proving my lack of knowledge again...
Do all 1956 Type B have the exact same reengraved wings? I was thinking that the reengraving was unique to the die, but after some googling and Groking... Apparently ALL the Type B dies have the same reengraving.
Ugh.
I do not see all of the reverses having the same re-engraving. Some do not show any at all, unless they are weakly struck, as the re-engraving is sunken into the die and harder to wear away.
The reverses do not have a 'year' marker so they could be used for multiple years.
One difference I have seen on the reverse is the progression of die crack on our left and eagle's right wing. Some coins exhibit a die chip and I am not sure but don't think they are all the same die.
Any progress on your project?
I had always assumed (maybe wrongly) that the decent proof dies were retired and put into the circulation die pile. It also could have been wrongly returned by a mint employee.
I just noticed how many MS66's you have. You might have more than anyone. +++
Yes, that is correct. Again, the engraving is on the Type B master die. The fine details may not be fully visible on every coin, however (such as on weakly struck or late die state examples).
I am not sure that is correct. It might have been on a master die, but not all of them.
How can you explain how the frequency and location on the proof quarters of that year is so variable?
https://pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1956-25c/images/5988
and the tied for top pop does not seem to have any re-engraving
https://greatcollections.com/Coin/568475/1956-Washington-Quarter-Type-B-Rev-FS-901-PCGS-MS-67
Sounds like you may not understand the concept of a master die, or how the Type B reverse was used in the Washington Quarter series. It was first used on 1937 proofs, and they and all subsequent quarters with the Type B reverse have the same reengraving. The Type H reverse (which was made from the Type B reverse) also has the same reengraving.
With photos (and proof photos especially) you can add lighting as an important factor.
That's a later die state example of a business strike, coupled with a low-resolution photo, so I wouldn't expect to see much.
I think you might be mistaken on some of your terminology, according to the US Mint
There are many denominations that have areas re-engraved, they would not do that on the earliest die.
Do you have mint documentation to back your assertion?
https://usmint.gov/learn/production-process/die-making
Sorry to hear that you are still confused. Based on their appearance, we infer that the reengraved wing lines on the Type B reverse were done by hand (like the various reengraved tailfeather varieties), but in this case, the lines were engraved on the Type B reverse master die, rather than on individual working dies. The reason the lines were engraved is the same reason that the relief on the Type B reverse was increased over the original Type A reverse - the reverse detail on the 1936 proof quarters (which were struck with the Type A reverse) simply wasn't showing up well enough.
It is unusual for detail to be reengraved by hand on a master die, but not unheard of. In addition to the Type B quarter reverse, the Type 1 and Friendly Eagle reverse master dies in the Eisenhower dollar series also have reengraved detail.
From what I've seen, ALL type B reverse quarters show the re-engraved wing feathers, both business strikes and proofs back to 1937 when they first used the type B for proofs.