1957 Proof Franklin - does it have doubling and is it FS-801?
DeadKatCollectibles
Posts: 16 ✭
I believe I've stumbled upon a 1957 50C TDR FS-801 Proof but we can't seem to align on exactly what this coin is or could be. Please read below and add to the conversation as needed!
0
Comments
The FS-801 for 1957 is not listed on VV as a TDR just a DDR. Yours is not an exact match when looking at the VV photos. It is possible that you could have an EDS/LDS example with some strike doubling, or just dramatic strike doubling. But there are not photos of an EDS or LDS on VV to try and match to.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
so I could have a DDR but with strike doubling and instead of a true TDR? I'm just not sure if this is worth looking into is all and I'm honestly not knowledgable enough to know the difference between the FS and VV as sources of truth; happy to learn even if the only time you have is a few top-of-mind urls
Here is another url: https://www.ngccoin.com/variety-plus/united-states/half-dollars/franklin-half-dollars-1948-1963/815564/
However, the doubling shown on those sites look more to the left of the lettering in E Pluribus Unum and yours looks more to the right.
I was able to
get this angle to show the (what I believe to be) extra serifs; tell me whatever other angles are needed for any diagnostics and I'll get it posted as well
on anecdotal evidence VV lists QDO and TDO as "DDO"
here is an example:
http://www.varietyvista.com/12 Kennedy Halves/DDO Detail Pages/1964PDDO035.htm
check the last T in trust
In both of your pics for E PLURIBUS, you look to have doubling that goes south> @MsMorrisine said:
Yeah, NGC, lists this one as a TDR. Tripling is seen on E PLURIBUS UNUM, AMERICA and DOLLAR.
VV is good for close up photos that show details. it is a great and reliable source for known varieties.
as far as strike doubling, in the closeups provided there is absolutely no strike doubling
http://www.varietyvista.com/ will help you more than just coinfacts because VV has cloeups pcgs for the most part doesn't
http://www.varietyvista.com/11 Franklin Halves/DDRs 1957.htm - as far as FS-801: on this landing page link, a single thumbnail is there from E Pluribus Unum. the tripling is obvious there. click the link for more photos.
i don't think it is an exact match for FS-801
you'll get more visitors and replies if you have better thread titles: try something like: "1597 Proof Franklin - does it have doubling and is it FS-801?"
yeah the
HALF DOLLARdoesn't match up to anything perfectly! Could mine be a fake or a super-early die? I'm looking around PCGS, NGC, VV, Reddit, and here so trying to cover all my cornersthat's no counterfeit
study the coin and you can be sure it's not a counterfeit
die states will still show the doubling in the same areas
the closeups appear to be image software zoomed. they are grainy closeups making it harder to be sure what is there
just saw your previous post as well; I'll create a new threaed and upload more pics to hopefully get more eyes on it.
Would this be rare or is it more of a novelty?
If you ever use CoinFacts for varieties. What I do is when you click on the image to enlarge it, right click "Open Image in new tab", this way you can click on the image in another tab and enlarge it even more. This helps sometimes when you want to see the variety on different coins.
just change the title of this one
rarity or desirable: you'll have to ask the frankie fans about that
@MsMorrisine I've retaken all the photos and tried to get as little grain as possible with such macro conditions. Please let me know if there's anything else I can do to help get this solved
the eagle appears to be tripled as well!
i don't see it
What I meant to say was that the entire bottom of the eagle (wing feathers, tail feathers, claws, and branch) along with the beak seem to have the same Northern trajectory with multiple overlapping that I want to say is more tripling
Last post before calling it a night. Just wanted to point out that the doubling on my 1957 Franklin proof looks alot more similar to the 1956 50C Type 2, DDR, FS-801 (Proof) and especially on VV here.
It's almost as if a 1956 DDR Proof got into the 1957 Proof hoppers maybe?
if a 1956 coin "made it into a batch of 1957" then the date would still be a 1956
it doesn't look like either
well I'm stumped then...unless they reused the reverse dies that had life left in them....or it's just a ewird coin worth silver metlt
Yours appears to be a match for DDR-002. See if this matches to your coin:
http://www.varietyvista.com/11 Franklin Halves/DDR Detail Pages/1957PDDR002.htm
The TDR shows doubling to the left of E PLURIBUS UNUM. I came across one of these a while back.
Coin Photography
@DeadKatCollects Your coin has clear strike doubling. Learn to ID strike doubling before you look for any doubled die varieties.
@DeadKatCollects all of the supposed doubling (or tripling) that I see in your pictures appears to me to be flat and shelf-like.
Can you point to ant doubling that is raised to the same height as the main design and not shelf-like? Post an image with an arrow pointing to that area if so.
If all of the doubling looks flat and shelf-like to you also, what does that tell you?
i thought it was just reflections
read his posts and you'll see he's still learning
Yes, that is why we advised him.
The very last shot of the eagle looks like true doubling to me.
Coin Photography
If you believe you can match the VV pickup points to the OP coin, be my guest.
I see strike doubling.
I'd need some more pics of the tailfeathers of the eagle to be confident, which I believe the OP will probably provide.
Coin Photography
I've listed what I believe to be true doubling/tripling (as compared to strike/machine doubling).
I'm here to learn. In that vein, don't hesitate to correct me, call me out for wrong assumptions/info, or send me on learning paths. All that I ask is that you do so with proofs, links, and/or sources cited; otherwise that's just like, your opinion, man.
I believe you are wrong, there is clear strike doubling. Real hub doubling doesn't go from the side of one letter to the bottom of the next to the opposite side on the next, textbook strike/die deterioration doubling on this coin. That is not to say there is not true hub doubling present, just that there is also simple strike doubling.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
@DeadKatCollectibles can we get some new images of the tail feathers of the eagle?
Coin Photography
@FlyingAl sure thing
Thank you! That looks more like machine doubling to me based on the new images.
Interesting coin, best of luck with your hunting!
Coin Photography
Once again, that is why you need to learn to recognize strike doubling (and other forms of doubling) before you look for any doubled die varieties. It's a waste of time otherwise.
That's part of the problem. You should be learning most of the information on your own and coming here to supplement your learning. There really isn't any part of numismatics (and certainly not die varieties) that can effectively be learned by being spoon fed. We've seen it time and time again here on the Forum; the newbies that come to be spoon fed never make it very far.
That is exactly what we did.
That's really not the right attitude, and for a couple of reasons. First of all, you came here without any knowledge and without doing your due research. You received a consensus of opinions that were correct (and also a few that were incorrect, to be fair). However, even the incorrect ones were based on knowledge and experience that you do not have - and represent a generous gift of the responder's time - so the proper response for you is to treat all opinions like gold whether they are correct or not.
Secondly, you already received the only two words needed ("strike doubling") to send you down the correct learning path. This phenomenon is extensively discussed wherever doubled dies are discussed (including on this Forum). Quite frankly, if you had done your due research to begin with, you should already have been aware of strike doubling without anyone having to tell you.
Those of us who respond to these kinds of threads can get a good sense within the first few posts whether die varieties and errors are a good fit for the poster. So far, you are 0 for 2, and I'm sorry to say that the odds are not looking good, at least for now. To those just starting out, we often suggest filling a Whitman folder as a project. In your case, you might enjoy filling a Dansco album since you are interested in proofs.
Please see my comments on your 1975-s dime thread as well:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/14026519/#Comment_14026519
If you were a super hero named Double Die Defender, what would your outfit look like? Any special powers?
I'd have an Anti-Delusion Ray. I'd try it out on Emerald first to make sure that it worked.