1921 Morgan Zerbe Proof Markers

dipset512

I notice this coin is different from other 1921 Morgan's. So I tried researching proof like, special strikes, etc. When comparing to the die markers on VamWorld and looking at high-res images on CoinFacts, Stacks, etc. it seems to be all there, but I could be wrong. Below I am going to post some of the die markers and you can let me know if you think this matches up or I am just going down a rabbit hole of nothingness.

Doubled Left Stars

Quadrupled Right Stars

Wreath Bow Die Polishing Lines

17 Berries

Arrowhead Die Polish Lines

Left Berry Polish Line

yosclimber

This thread from July has useful info on the Zerbe dies.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1115036/segs-1921-so-called-zerbe-dollar

dipset512

@yosclimber said:
This thread from July has useful info on the Zerbe dies.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1115036/segs-1921-so-called-zerbe-dollar

Thank you, I'll take a look.

Morgan13

Interesting.....

dipset512

I know the obvious answer is to send it in and that way you know for sure. But how does one go about a special strike? Do you go the VAM route, select the Zebre Special Strike as the submission coin, etc. That's an area I do not know of.

Old_Collector

I would choose to list it as a Zerbe Special Strike and make it very clear and so obvious that nobody can miss seeing it, because they can miss things that don't really slap them in the face.

messydesk

The pictures you're showing aren't the ones I'd look at to determine if it was VAM 1AG or not. I'd be looking at the die polishing lines shown in the first 5 pictures under the "Additional Photos" section this page:

https://vamworld.com/wiki/1921-P_VAM-1AG

Keep in mind that there's no evidence that these coins were specially struck, although a small group that appear to be clearly better quality than normal business strikes does exist from these dies. Also, the same dies were used to strike normal looking Morgans.

dipset512

@messydesk said:
The pictures you're showing aren't the ones I'd look at to determine if it was VAM 1AG or not. I'd be looking at the die polishing lines shown in the first 5 pictures under the "Additional Photos" section this page:

https://vamworld.com/wiki/1921-P_VAM-1AG

Keep in mind that there's no evidence that these coins were specially struck, although a small group that appear to be clearly better quality than normal business strikes does exist from these dies. Also, the same dies were used to strike normal looking Morgans.

Thanks, that's what is so confusing about this. If I sent this into get authenticated are they going off VAM-1AG or VAM-47? I mixed in both on my photos hoping for a comment like this. Thanks

PapiNE

I have an attributed-on-holder VAM 1AG EDS (no cracks) if I can help out in any way. The vamworld site seems to be acting up at the moment. I noticed my arrowheads lack the polishing lines on yours. I would consider the line extending from the 5th right star into the denticles to be a key marker.

dipset512

@PapiNE said:
I have an attributed-on-holder VAM 1AG EDS (no cracks) if I can help out in any way. The vamworld site seems to be acting up at the moment. I noticed my arrowheads lack the polishing lines on yours. I would consider the line extending from the 5th right star into the denticles to be a key marker.

Thanks for the photos! The marker you pointed out is very helpful.

@messydesk I saw this comment from you on vamworld:

There is no, I repeat, NO premium for anything that doesn't match 1921-P VAM-1AG or 1921-P VAM-47 exactly,

Do either VAM's take precedence or is VAM-1AG supplemental to VAM-47? Hopefully this helps someone in the future when trying to research this more.

messydesk

@dipset512 said:

@PapiNE said:
I have an attributed-on-holder VAM 1AG EDS (no cracks) if I can help out in any way. The vamworld site seems to be acting up at the moment. I noticed my arrowheads lack the polishing lines on yours. I would consider the line extending from the 5th right star into the denticles to be a key marker.

Thanks for the photos! The marker you pointed out is very helpful.

@messydesk I saw this comment from you on vamworld:

There is no, I repeat, NO premium for anything that doesn't match 1921-P VAM-1AG or 1921-P VAM-47 exactly,

Do either VAM's take precedence or is VAM-1AG supplemental to VAM-47? Hopefully this helps someone in the future when trying to research this more.

All the coins I've seen that are the "Zerbe proof" are VAM 1AG, so I would give that precedence. If you have a VAM 47 that looks like a special coin, and not just a lightly marked PL, it would be worth a closer look.

dipset512

Thanks all for the information, this helps a lot.