New eBay Return Scam Uncovered
AuthenticatedCoins
Posts: 15 ✭✭
Hi all,
Just wanted to give a little FYI to everyone of a recent return scam we encountered, for your awareness:
We recently sold a coin for $300+ on eBay to a buyer with 100% positive feedback and 213 ratings. The buyer's address was located in unincorporated New Castle County, Delaware. This was our first transaction with this individual. We shipped the item out, and then the buyer filed for a return. This coin looked excellent, so we were a little surprised upon the return request.
A few days later, we received notification on the tracking that the package was "delivered to PO box". Upon checking our PO box, the item wasn't there. Our local post office is excellent in that they manually log (written) each and every item delivered to our PO box at the local office due to the large quantity of items received. The written log proved that the tracking number was not delivered to us, even though the tracking showed "Delivered, PO box".
A few days later, I visited the post office again to see if the package had turned up anywhere. The USPS agent had escalated internally with her managers and showed me an image of the package (when it was going thru their internal system -- apparently they photograph every single package) and it had an entirely different to/from address on it than what should have been, yet the tracking number/barcode on the label itself was correct. I don't think she really is allowed to show it to me, but she did give me a 4 second glance at the photo on her phone and I confirmed what she said was accurate. The "to" address was a nearby veterinarian clinic. She said it was bizarre and she hadn't seen anything like it.
Today, eBay forced me to refund and closed my appeal attempts putting me out $300+ and they are actually charging me the selling fees on top of that too... but it was at that moment when I finally connected the dots.
1) Buyer purchased item
2) Buyer filed a return
3) Buyer created a modified tracking label (photoshop?) with correct barcode/tracking #, but with a different/nearby "to" address
4) Courier delivered the bogus package (likely containing nothing) to the nearby "to" address
5) Tracking showed "Delivered to USPS PO Box" even though it was not delivered, b/c correct "tracking barcode" was still present
6) My USPS confirmed it was not in the written log they maintain of packages dropped in my box
7) eBay sides with the buyer because package shows "Delivered"
8) Looking up the original address, see a ton of similar issues from other online sellers
The most infuriating message I received from the buyer was "And I'm saying, all you can do is not dwell on it, accept it as a loss, and just don't worry about it, because it's pointless. You can consider yourself lucky that the package didn't contain an expensive item." as if a $300+ package is not expensive. I am sure he has scammed sellers for far more though.
I plan to contact the sheriff office in New Castle County and provide the address/details, contact the postal inspector, and the FBI. Obviously, probably a small fish to fry, but will post any updates here as they happen. Be careful out there!
Authenticated Coins was founded in 2020 and has proudly served over 3,000 customers. See our full inventory at AuthenticatedCoins.com.
Comments
4) Courier delivered the bogus package (likely containing nothing) to the nearby "to" address
5) Tracking showed "Delivered to USPS PO Box" even though it was not delivered, b/c correct "tracking barcode" was still present
Inside man at USPS? How does USPS update/scan the correct barcode?
Sounds like an update to old eBay scam where sellers would supply tracking. It showed delivery at that zip code. Problem was it worthless package to some business with same zip code.
Is there any way to contact vet clinic and get the 'package'. eBay would have a hard time denying that hard evidence and should close account of buyer. The buyer's message was delivered through eBay messaging?
What is the eBay buyer's user id?
No, we have shipped and received thousands of packages and and we have only lost about 2 other packages, so it's very fishy when a "returned" item (which occurs VERY infrequently) doesn't make it back.
To your question, I believe the buyer created a photoshopped tracking label in which the original correct tracking (scannable) label was present, ensuring it would roughly make it to the correct area, yet the "to" and "from" modified, where the "to" was a nearby business. And when delivered to the nearby business, the courier scanned the label, and that is why it showed as delivered to PO box even though it was not delivered. The image I saw, from the USPS staff, showed a package that had the exact tracking number as as mine present yet had a modified to/from address than what should have been there.
Authenticated Coins was founded in 2020 and has proudly served over 3,000 customers. See our full inventory at AuthenticatedCoins.com.
It is my understanding that USPS scans include GPS info. If the package was scanned as delivered, the USPS should be able to tell where the scan occurred.
Ah, that makes sense then. Since it's the last leg, a courier would sort by address. Thanks
I’m very sorry that happened and thank you for the thorough explanation.
Edited: Best of luck to you.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I called the vet clinic several times and emailed them, and they were looking for it but never found it. I imagine if the package just contained nothing, they would just discard it quickly upon receipt (this was weeks ago. )I will message you some information, I don't want this post to get removed for sharing too many details that could be deemed "personal" by moderation here.
Authenticated Coins was founded in 2020 and has proudly served over 3,000 customers. See our full inventory at AuthenticatedCoins.com.
Upon their investigation, they fully believe it was delivered to the vet clinic (who can't find the pacakge-- as they likely disposed it upon receiving it and nothing being inside).
Here are some of "Google Reviews" for the buyer's address:
Authenticated Coins was founded in 2020 and has proudly served over 3,000 customers. See our full inventory at AuthenticatedCoins.com.
Thank you for your message. Yes, I am planning to reach out to them this week, along with the Sheriff in the buyer's county, and will make an FBI inquiry as well. Luckily, this is the first return scam i've encountered in selling several thousand items on eBay. It's a numbers game, and I figured it would happen eventually.
Authenticated Coins was founded in 2020 and has proudly served over 3,000 customers. See our full inventory at AuthenticatedCoins.com.
Not that I'd hold out much hope as eBay tends to consider any problem with a transaction to be the seller's fault, but if you had some documentation from USPS on that, you could contact eBay and dispute their determination that the item was returned to you.
This is the coin in question. I assume it will get cracked out and resubmitted, but sharing here and listing the certification number incase it ever does pop back up anywhere.
1935-P PCGS MS66 Boone Classic Commemorative Half Dollar 50C
Certification number: 9682745
Certification number (with 0): 09682745
Warning to anyone who sees this in the future -- The coin above certification number 9682745 is stolen.
Authenticated Coins was founded in 2020 and has proudly served over 3,000 customers. See our full inventory at AuthenticatedCoins.com.
You sound like you have an extremely level headed attitude and keep your cool, when many others wouldn’t. 👍
,
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Report stolen coins to NCIC (Doug Davis).
https://numismaticcrimes.org/about/
Two things:
The scanners have a GPS and will show where the package was scanned "Delivered". The PO won't share with you the location the package was scanned, but they'll be able to see where the package was scanned and by who.
Also contact the postal inspectors.
Thank you, submitted a report.
Authenticated Coins was founded in 2020 and has proudly served over 3,000 customers. See our full inventory at AuthenticatedCoins.com.
Did the New Castle address have a recipient name and some code (maybe 4-8 letters/numbers)? There are a TON of freight forwarding companies for international buyers in DE, FL, and OR, so the buyer may be further protected/untraceable by virtue of not being anywhere nearby or (easily) subject to US jurisdiction.
That stinks. If you could somehow get the GPS info from USPS for where it was delivered that might help convince eBay that the package, despite being marked as delivered, wasn't returned to the proper place.
Correct, the number in particular was "D11".
The return tracking route is also highly suspicious (see screenshot below) since the package supposedly originated in Delaware.
Does the below look like he probably actually lives in California and dropped it into the system somewhere in orange county? It's very unusual for mail originating from other states to go to Orange County first, when the destination is Los Angeles.
So connecting the dots, he may be using a Delaware forwarder to forward to his address in Southern California, possibly (of course he could also be outside of the US)?
Authenticated Coins was founded in 2020 and has proudly served over 3,000 customers. See our full inventory at AuthenticatedCoins.com.
I'm not convinced this is a scam. You have more faith in the post office giving you accurate info than I do. I've been through the lost package ordeal a couple of times and know for a fact they will deliver to the wrong address and claim it was delivered to you.
Let's review the facts:
1) The address he used to buy was a freight forwarding service in Delaware.
2) When he dropped the "return" in, it first hit the system in Orange County, CA (see tracking).
3) The USPS agent showed me a photograph their system took of the package which showed the correct tracking ID, but a different "to/from", in which the "to" was a nearby business within the same zip code as my PO box (I verified this on the USPS person's phone with my own eyes).
If a freight forwarding service wasn't involved, then I would think it could be a USPS mix up, but I believe it to be fraud.
Will share more updates if I hear anything from the postal inspector. They should send some dummy package through to the freight forwarding address and see where it actually ends up.
Authenticated Coins was founded in 2020 and has proudly served over 3,000 customers. See our full inventory at AuthenticatedCoins.com.
it's free but NCIC is funded by donations and such. try throwing a little something their way
It is the correct barcode. They just change the address on the label. Try it yourself. Send a package to your sister. Print the label,;then paste your own address over your sister's. It'll arrive at your house and scan as delivered to your sister.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
You don't need GPS. They have a picture of the label.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Can you PM me his username? Sounds like he'd make a great addition to my blocked buyers list.
My eBay page: https://www.ebay.com/usr/alvareznumismatics
Exactly, and I verified it with my own eyes too.
PM sent!
Authenticated Coins was founded in 2020 and has proudly served over 3,000 customers. See our full inventory at AuthenticatedCoins.com.
This is absolutely a scam, and it isn't new.
The same thing happened to my brother in law when he sold a phone on ebay a few years ago. The scammer sent a return package to a random address in the same town he lives that contained nothing. Ebay sided with the buyer and ended up banning my broth in law's account thinking that he was working with the scammer. He had police reports and everything, what a joke.
Collector, occasional seller
Sorry to hear what you’re going through, that really stinks.
Please PM me his eBay id also, I want to extend my blocked buyers list.
This is a bit out there, but you may want to start a registry set at PCGS, CAC, NGC, MyCollect or elsewhere and title the registry set something like "This Coin Is Stolen" and allow folks to contact you. It likely won't help, but if the coin is kept in the holder then it might make it less liquid and someone may contact you about it.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
PM sent!
This is a good idea! Luckily for me, the total count in 3,000 transactions would be just this single coin.
And just to leave ya'll with another funny message from the buyer before I blocked him earlier:
It's outrageous what the courier did. It looks like the courier stole the package and pretended it was delivered to the wrong place. But unfortunately, you can't prove anything or do anything. That's our job.
This happens, but it's incredibly rare.
He kept trying to insinuate that postal staff took the item.
Authenticated Coins was founded in 2020 and has proudly served over 3,000 customers. See our full inventory at AuthenticatedCoins.com.
don't tell the buyer you have a photo of the label
getting caught in a lie by the postal inspectors will certainly hurt his case
This is no different than the scam Amazon perpetrated on me back in 2022 when they insisted that they delivered a 6 piece patio table set to the inside of my mailbox. I stupidly did not request an
immediate credit card refund but wanted Amazon to investigate non-receipt of the order. Amazon screwed around and did not truly investigate my complaint. So i lost my ability to get a full refund.
I do not trust Amazon.
The people across the street get a lot of Amazon packages. The driver always takes a picture of the package after placing it on the doorstep. I often wonder what the picture is for, as if it's not possible for a driver to pick up the package and take it with them when they leave.
Could be multiple people involved one in Delaware and a partner in crime in CA sharing the photoshopped label in an attempt to complicate the path of the return.
Definitely contact the United States Postal Inspection Service (USPIS) regarding mail fraud.
USAF (Ret.) 1985 - 2005. E-4B Aircraft Maintenance Crew Chief and Contracting Officer.
My current Registry sets:
✓ Everyman Mint State Carson City Morgan Dollars (1878 – 1893)
✓ Everyman Mint State Lincoln Cents (1909 – 1958)
✓ Morgan Dollar GSA Hoard (1878 – 1891)
Me, too, please
I'd have to imagine that the forwarder repackages or at least applies a new label. If they didn't, you'd see the forwarding with the tracking from your original package. I suppose you could mail something like an Apple AirTag and see what happens, but then you're also counting on the forwarding company not screening contents. One option, though it would be difficult across state lines and with the true perpetrator in an unknown location, would be to file a case in small claims court and see if you can use that to subpoena the records from the freight forwarder to identify the eventual recipient.
Actually, we had a case locally, caught on a ring camera. Driver did exactly that: took a photo of the package on the steps and then took the package with them.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
There was a re-shipper that someone bought a Catherine the Great Russian coin from me in the last couple years and when I saw the address was linked to a company that ships out of the country based in DE, I cancelled the sale but ebay would not removed the negative from someone in the country of Georgia.
Sounds like the perpetrator may have met his match.
Good luck nailing this guy.