@dcarr said:
The commercial traders know where (at what price) stop-loss orders have been placed.
No they don't. Who told you that ?
They absolutely do NOT know that information. They'd have to have cracked the security at a dozen brokerage firms to know that.
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The brokerages know where the stop orders are for all of their own clients. And for larger firms, that is a lot of clients (enough to facilitate manipulating the market). The scheme only requires the stop-loss information from one large broker to make it work.
Nobody is talking about how the margin requirements being raised by the various futures markets has affected PM prices,
"Sep 25, 2025 — The Shanghai Gold Exchange raised margin requirements on gold to 16% and silver to 19% The They raised margin requirements on gold and silver futures for the sixth time this year, moving to calm a market that has soared since the U.S. Federal Reserve cut interest rates for the first time in 2025. "
"CME raised margin requirements on Gold Futures by 5.5% and Silver Futures by 8.5% last Friday.
@jmski52 said:
Not to mention HFT spoofing in milliseconds and the competition between towers right next to the exchange.
So does this manipulate the price UP or DOWN ?
Playing around with the spread and other nonsense doesn't impact the trend.
And those of you who think that the Little Guy doesn't stand a chance: you can get in or out of the market completely within seconds. It takes The Big Guys days or weeks or even months.
Small traders have unique advantages that you completely overlook.
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The same tactic can be used on the way up. The long-term effect on the underlying price is not all that significant.
But day-to-day, they are picking the pockets of the "retail speculators" who place stop-loss orders.
@coastaljerseyguy said:
Small traders have unique advantages that you completely overlook.
They manipulate both Up & Down for profits. Bring it up then sell it out, they love volatility. Now does it effect the >overall long-term trend, maybe not, but it effects today when I might want to buy or sell.
So maybe they helped you buy cheaper, right ?
How much does JP Morgan make from making a market in gold and PM's ? The division it is in makes $30 BB in revenue with profits of just under $4 billion. That's with commercial and investment banking lumped in with PM trading ~ 10% of the total. That's $300 MM.
JPM's total profits are just under $60 billion. It's a rounding error !!
You guys are convinved there's something nefarious going on when there isn't. You're like The Long Gunmen on the old "X-Files" show.
@coastaljerseyguy said:
Small traders have unique advantages that you completely overlook.
They manipulate both Up & Down for profits. Bring it up then sell it out, they love volatility. Now does it effect the >overall long-term trend, maybe not, but it effects today when I might want to buy or sell.
So maybe they helped you buy cheaper, right ?
How much does JP Morgan make from making a market in gold and PM's ? The division it is in makes $30 BB in revenue with profits of just under $4 billion. That's with commercial and investment banking lumped in with PM trading ~ 10% of the total. That's $300 MM.
JPM's total profits are just under $60 billion. It's a rounding error !!
You guys are convinved there's something nefarious going on when there isn't. You're like The Long Gunmen on the old "X-Files" show.
.
JP Morgan Chase has been caught, fined, and sentenced for fraudulent activity in the precious metals market.
And you're telling us that they have all this lucrative stop-loss inside information and they don't use it ?
COME ON.
JPM makes $4 billion profit in precious metals (according to you) and pays less than $1 billion in fines. Not bad (for them).
$3 billion easy money and only $300 million of it (that we know about) was stolen.
You think $300+ million that was stolen from other people is excusable because it amounts to a "rounding error" in JPM's total profits ? That is basically what you are claiming.
Nobody is talking about how the margin requirements being raised by the various futures markets has affected PM prices,
Good observation. The manipulation continues, but this time around, I don't think that raising margin requirements is going to stop the buying by central banks, family offices, and sovereign wealth funds.
They did the same thing to the Hunt brothers. If they want to tilt the advantage towards the big players, that's exactly how to do it.
JP Morgan Chase has been caught, fined, and sentenced for fraudulent activity in the precious metals market.
And you're telling us that they have all this lucrative stop-loss inside information and they don't use it ?
If anybody thinks that the precious metals markets are the only place that JPM manipulates the markets, you are ripe for the pickings. Speaking of manipulation and fraudulent activities,
From Wikipedia: Blythe Sally Jess Masters (née Levett; born 22 March 1969) is a British private equity executive and former financial services and fintech executive. She is a former executive at JPMorganChase,[1] where she was widely credited for developing the credit default swap as a financial instrument.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Comments
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The brokerages know where the stop orders are for all of their own clients. And for larger firms, that is a lot of clients (enough to facilitate manipulating the market). The scheme only requires the stop-loss information from one large broker to make it work.
.
Nobody is talking about how the margin requirements being raised by the various futures markets has affected PM prices,
"Sep 25, 2025 — The Shanghai Gold Exchange raised margin requirements on gold to 16% and silver to 19% The They raised margin requirements on gold and silver futures for the sixth time this year, moving to calm a market that has soared since the U.S. Federal Reserve cut interest rates for the first time in 2025. "
"CME raised margin requirements on Gold Futures by 5.5% and Silver Futures by 8.5% last Friday.
.
The same tactic can be used on the way up. The long-term effect on the underlying price is not all that significant.
But day-to-day, they are picking the pockets of the "retail speculators" who place stop-loss orders.
.
So maybe they helped you buy cheaper, right ?
How much does JP Morgan make from making a market in gold and PM's ? The division it is in makes $30 BB in revenue with profits of just under $4 billion. That's with commercial and investment banking lumped in with PM trading ~ 10% of the total. That's $300 MM.
JPM's total profits are just under $60 billion. It's a rounding error !!
You guys are convinved there's something nefarious going on when there isn't. You're like The Long Gunmen on the old "X-Files" show.
.
JP Morgan Chase has been caught, fined, and sentenced for fraudulent activity in the precious metals market.
And you're telling us that they have all this lucrative stop-loss inside information and they don't use it ?
COME ON.
JPM makes $4 billion profit in precious metals (according to you) and pays less than $1 billion in fines. Not bad (for them).
$3 billion easy money and only $300 million of it (that we know about) was stolen.
You think $300+ million that was stolen from other people is excusable because it amounts to a "rounding error" in JPM's total profits ? That is basically what you are claiming.
.
Nobody is talking about how the margin requirements being raised by the various futures markets has affected PM prices,
Good observation. The manipulation continues, but this time around, I don't think that raising margin requirements is going to stop the buying by central banks, family offices, and sovereign wealth funds.
They did the same thing to the Hunt brothers. If they want to tilt the advantage towards the big players, that's exactly how to do it.
JP Morgan Chase has been caught, fined, and sentenced for fraudulent activity in the precious metals market.
And you're telling us that they have all this lucrative stop-loss inside information and they don't use it ?
If anybody thinks that the precious metals markets are the only place that JPM manipulates the markets, you are ripe for the pickings. Speaking of manipulation and fraudulent activities,
From Wikipedia: Blythe Sally Jess Masters (née Levett; born 22 March 1969) is a British private equity executive and former financial services and fintech executive. She is a former executive at JPMorganChase,[1] where she was widely credited for developing the credit default swap as a financial instrument.
I knew it would happen.