You keep mentioned 'they' didn't want the TARP money, like it applied to all banks. Ok Goldman got $5B from Warren earlier and JPM was not heavily involved with CDO's like ML, BofA, Wachovia and dozens/hundreds of smaller regional banks. The FED pushed these 2 to take the money so there was no stigma attached to TARP recipients. But overall, the banking industry needed TARP.
@dcarr said:
Of course a large bank is going to say that they "didn't need the money". If they really did need money, they would >certainly try and cover that up.
The market said they didn't need the money, too. If they did, the stock price would have crashed below $1 to reflect dilution.
@dcarr said:
Of course a large bank is going to say that they "didn't need the money". If they really did need money, they would >certainly try and cover that up.
The market said they didn't need the money, too. If they did, the stock price would have crashed below $1 to reflect dilution.
The market doesn't lie.
The market doesn't lie because it is what is is. It may be temporarily wrong and even manipulated, but we all have to accept what it is, at least for now. Some of the GFC players never crashed to $1 or even zero because the FED stepped in with money. ML went from over $90 prior to about $12 with the BAC offer of < 1 share in exchange. And that was with $20B in TARP and guarantees over $100B for contingent losses. And ML had over $1T in customer assets in its Private Client division (excluding the mess in its Investment Banking area), so even at 1% fee, that $10B in annual revenue.
Plus JPM saying they didn't need the money, even if it did, was maybe the greatest marketing play in history. Can you image the campaign, we are so strong and well managed we are the only bank not needing a 'bail out'. They would have received so much cash inflows from other banks it would have dwarfed the TARP money. No wonder Jamie is considered 1 of the shrewdest and best bankers in history.
@derryb said:
irresponsible lending. 08 all over again. Regulators, the FED and congress chose to kick the can down the road >instead of swallowing the medicine. Cul-de-sac approaching
The market disagrees with you. Back then, troubled banks were down 75-95%. Today, bank stocks are making new all-time highs.
The market disagrees with you. Back then, troubled banks were down 75-95%. Today, bank stocks are making new all-time highs.
I trust the market.
Yep, that's where a lot of that easy money $6 trillion of QE from the GFC ended up, in the stock market, in the banking system and stock market. And there's more to come, no doubt.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
@jmski52 said:
Yep, that's where a lot of that easy money $6 trillion of QE from the GFC ended up, in the stock market, in the >banking system and stock market. And there's more to come, no doubt.
None of it ended up "in the stock market".....it's credit that comes in and goes out of the financial system every day. $6 trillion is more than the market capitalization of the entire banking system. And QE is now being REVERSED.
That's why we have the Federal Reserve System we have.....12 districts...each with their own needs.....Carter Glass's creation.
Besides, if the stocks are worthless, no amount of QE will save them.
@jmski52 said:
I don't track stocks, but I'd venture to say that PE ratios are historically high, and it's not because of earnings.
Sure, the Mag 7 and related AI stocks. The rest of the S&P 475 are moderately valued. Nothing like 2000 when the top-end was selling at 2x today's levels for the megacaps.
Comments
You keep mentioned 'they' didn't want the TARP money, like it applied to all banks. Ok Goldman got $5B from Warren earlier and JPM was not heavily involved with CDO's like ML, BofA, Wachovia and dozens/hundreds of smaller regional banks. The FED pushed these 2 to take the money so there was no stigma attached to TARP recipients. But overall, the banking industry needed TARP.
The market said they didn't need the money, too. If they did, the stock price would have crashed below $1 to reflect dilution.
The market doesn't lie.
The market doesn't lie because it is what is is. It may be temporarily wrong and even manipulated, but we all have to accept what it is, at least for now. Some of the GFC players never crashed to $1 or even zero because the FED stepped in with money. ML went from over $90 prior to about $12 with the BAC offer of < 1 share in exchange. And that was with $20B in TARP and guarantees over $100B for contingent losses. And ML had over $1T in customer assets in its Private Client division (excluding the mess in its Investment Banking area), so even at 1% fee, that $10B in annual revenue.
Plus JPM saying they didn't need the money, even if it did, was maybe the greatest marketing play in history. Can you image the campaign, we are so strong and well managed we are the only bank not needing a 'bail out'. They would have received so much cash inflows from other banks it would have dwarfed the TARP money. No wonder Jamie is considered 1 of the shrewdest and best bankers in history.
Sounds like another nothingburger™ conspiracy to me. THKS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
The market disagrees with you. Back then, troubled banks were down 75-95%. Today, bank stocks are making new all-time highs.
I trust the market.
The market disagrees with you. Back then, troubled banks were down 75-95%. Today, bank stocks are making new all-time highs.
I trust the market.
Yep, that's where a lot of that easy money $6 trillion of QE from the GFC ended up, in the stock market, in the banking system and stock market. And there's more to come, no doubt.
I knew it would happen.
None of it ended up "in the stock market".....it's credit that comes in and goes out of the financial system every day. $6 trillion is more than the market capitalization of the entire banking system. And QE is now being REVERSED.
That's why we have the Federal Reserve System we have.....12 districts...each with their own needs.....Carter Glass's creation.
Besides, if the stocks are worthless, no amount of QE will save them.
None of it ended up "in the stock market"
I don't track stocks, but I'd venture to say that PE ratios are historically high, and it's not because of earnings.
I knew it would happen.
Sure, the Mag 7 and related AI stocks. The rest of the S&P 475 are moderately valued. Nothing like 2000 when the top-end was selling at 2x today's levels for the megacaps.