Generic Morgan prices with Silver price increase

Silver has gone up about $30/oz in the last 3 years or so. Generic Morgans ( eg 1881-s MS-63) are pretty much the same price in the PCGS price guide as then. (about $90) . This has me confused. It seems the numismatic value has decreased to offset the Silver price increase. Thoughts? I know its not one for one ( Morgans are like 90% of an ounce silver content) but I would think they would have at least increased say $20 per coin?
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the guide is just a guide - look at closed sales
Regardless of what you might have seen in the PCGS price guide, I don’t think that common date MS63 Morgan dollars were bringing that much ($90) a few years ago. That aside, with the huge run-up in the price of silver, premiums on generic silver coins have dropped. The same goes for generic gold coins, due to the dramatic rise in the price of gold.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I was just using the guide as a reference. I know the prices have remained static because i have records from 3 years ago when I bought some PCGS 63's i recorded the guide price. Its essentially the same now. The premium aspect that you mention makes sense
premium deterioration is happening to the 4 figure gold coins too
I have an 1896 64CAC Liberty DE that has 25 stickered at the grade and 2 graded higher. It has not moved $1 and gold has gone up $1300+ per oz. A 62CAC is only $750 less now and was thousands less back then.
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$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
What does that coin go for approximately ?
You would expect coins that trade at HUGE multiples of gold -- like condition rarities or an MCMVII High Relief > MS-63 -- to really not move with gold, even a move of 130% from $1,700 to $4,000.
Definitely! Any numismatic premiums for more common date material evaporated a while ago. When I bought my common date (1924) Saint back when gold was at $2150/oz. I opted for a common date in a higher grade (MS65) rather than one with a "better date " ( I think a 1914-S) but in a lower grade, MS63. They were both the same price. As the price of gold increased, I watched the prices realized for the "better date" get closer to spot. That said, now with gold over $4k/oz, even the common date Saint in 65 isn't that much over spot... maybe $100 according to the Price Guide.
I also saw this with the $3 gold Princess I recently bought. I had been looking for well over a year... as the price of gold doubled, yet the price of the $3 gold pieces I was looking at ticked up at a much slower pace. There's only about $600 worth of gold in it... the numismatic premium still exists, but it's not nearly the percentage of realized prices we got accustomed to...
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CAC guide $6000. Two years ago CAC guide $6000. The 62CAC is now $5250. It was around $3000 when gold was around that.
Successful BST with drddm, BustDMs, Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
The question is who are going to be the buyers as silver goes up? If larger numbers of the population had a lot of money to pursue their collecting habits then they might be attracted to more silver coins. From what I can see for many who are collecting they just don't have a lot of extra money and are extremely risk averse.
Sounds like a numismatic buying opportunity. Especially if you can trade bullion gold for better date numismatic gold.
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if the price of gold goes up, the premium on better dates may disappear.
Sold some raw proof Franklins for just under spot recently. When silver was $4/oz they had a nice little premium that I was happy to pay. The fact that silver is up doesn’t have any affect on what ai think my ‘50 in 65 should be worth. There’s really no correlation until spot reaches the total value. We call it the “numismatic premium” and that’s not wrong, but the value of the coin just is what it is, and the metal value is what it is. The premium is observed, but doesn’t, in itself, carry any weight.
The refiners are backed up. Governments are stockpiling PM's. They will read about this in the history books.
Interesting times to say the least.
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Got my 1923-D MS-66 at FUN 2020 when gold was about $1,650...paid $3,500 for a nice-looking one. Gold is $4,000 now and the coin is about $5,500. So bullion up 150% and the coin up about 60%.
I'm not sure buying gold after the price doubled counts as a "buying opportunity ".
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At $100 silver, they'll be melting 64s and under.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
The market for th Morgan’s not that strong imo. But I would think they would have moved up (buying opportunity) on some in last couple months with silver increasing - Buyers want 1oz silver coins like ASE, Mexico Libertad, etc. - especially slabbed. One of my clients wkg on set of slabbed Mexico Libertads silver pieces. take a look at CDN CPG on them. An exciting area. Many tough dates as u move up in 68-70. So if silver goes up 5pct tomorrow investors know these coins went up that. Plus many investing in MS68-70 on them. Especially if affordable for them.
I have no explanation why generic Morgan slow or stalled. I have many CACG in 64-65 and wonder if that market weak. As many same CPG vs months ago. Maybe sellers asleep well I may be hunting me some.
On the other hand I have bought some nice CACG Morgan’s (64 and65) at same price months ago. Sweet
Keep the faith I think you will bank on the Morgan’s. Maybe pick out some you like online if around CDN bid or less.
Just about 200 years ago the gold content was lowered and the coins hit the melting pot. That makes finding pre-1834 coins difficult. I am starting to wonder what the "Great melt of 2025" will do to the amount of coinage available down the road. At over $20 in melt value for a half dollar there are going to be a lot of coins disappearing. Time will tell how this plays out.
Successful BST with drddm, BustDMs, Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
To me, a buying opportunity represents where the price is now vs where it may go in the future, past prices are not relevant.
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Your hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need it.
While past prices might not be relevant to you, they are to many of us.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The problem is that you can't know the future. If you didn't think a year ago was a buying opportunity, why is now? That sounds more like FOMO.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
So now it's 2X+ vs. something like 4X previously? The only thing surprising to me is that this coinage ever sold for the prior premiums to the spot price.
What’s now “2X” and what is the “X” you were referring to?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I think he means 2x the intrinsic value.
I have no idea where he got that multiple, though.
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What’s 2X the intrinsic value and the value of what? Various gold and silver coins have been mentioned in this thread.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
$80ish for a Morgan is 2x the intrinsic. But, as I say, I don't know how he got that multiple. Might have just been using relative numbers. If silver or gold doubles, a coin seeking for 4x bullion would now be selling for 2x bullion if the price hadn't changed
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Yes have noticed they at same value CDN Bid / CPG for awhile. Maybe I better buy some more. I like them in 64 and 65. Bought quite few slabbed ones over last couple months.
With the silver price rising I think the generic Morgan’s due for a big bump up. Just a matter of when. Otherwise investors will just seek quality slabbed bullion coins Mexico Libertads, ASE, GB Britanias.
Have picked up a few generic Morgan’s mostly CACG. Exciting time to buy.
Yes, I'm referring to generic Morgan dollars, the title of this thread. $90 (from the OP) would have been roughly 4X the silver content prior to the recent run-up. At roughly $50, it's slightly more than 2X now. I didn't specify the coin as I expected it should have been apparent I was referring to the one in the thread title. My omission.
What's a "big bump" to you?
What leads you to believe hobbyist collectors, the ultimate end "consumer" of collectible coins, will be willing to pay this "big bump" increase?
They aren't generally buying coins as commoditized "widgets".
Thank you.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The title of this thread is "Generic Morgan Prices with Silver Price Increase" so I just assumed he's talking about generic Morgan dollars compared to their silver values.
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"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
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Yes like gravity wager slabbed generic Morgan’s value will rise as BV increases. I think MS 64 and higher a good investment. And in demand from various types of investors.
Demand strong for them and they are fun slabbed coins to stack.