@fluffy155 said:
Addressing the original question, I have an inexpensive silver world coin that I really like but is unnaturally bright. Over a period of 3 years I left it on the windowsill bare, then wrapped in a napkin, finally I tried placing it in an old leather pouch on the furnace.
I was just hoping to mellow it a bit, but sadly there was little (if any) change. I'm not a very good doctor, apparently.
I'm not either. I tried to tone this coin (55/54 WB-2) down with leaf detritus in a bag situated in a window for months. Nothing.
@coastaljerseyguy said:
For coins with minor cleanings, like pocket change wear, a better word for window sill storage is remediation, if long term & it works. Conservation, no. Adding a taco napkin, doctoring.
Why is the use of a napkin “doctoring” but window sill storage “remediation”? Each method is an intentional act to change/improve the look of the coin.
I could see doing that if one puts an ugly bright scrape on a coin's surface or rims. I accidentally hit the rim of a now PCGS VF30 1855/54 half leaving a wicked bright 1-2 mm scrape on the rim. I was furious with myself for damaging my highest-grade cherry pick at that time. I thought about putting it on my windowsill, but that would have been inviting trouble with three dogs and four cats in the house. Fortunately, after about 6 months the coin toned enough that the scrape was no longer conspicuous, and I submitted the coin for grading.
But that wasn’t what I asked. “Why is the use of a napkin “doctoring” but window sill storage “remediation”? Each method is an intentional act to change/improve the look of the coin.”
It provides a way to "rehab" the coin more naturally rather than wrapping a coin in a sulfur tainted napkin. As it was, it did retone on its own naturally through normal exposure to air and light. Placing on a windowsill simply speeds up the natural process in a normal household environment. Adding sulfur to alter the coin's environment with napkins is a deliberate chemical alteration of the coin's environment that I feel is significantly different than normal processes occurring in a normal (household) sunlit environment.
Normal chemical environment with sunlight - fine
Adding chemicals to the environment around the coin to rapidly affect color change - not the same and less acceptable IMO.
That's a very fine line you're drawing. Can't i "naturally" want to line my coin cabinet with napkins because velvet is too expensive?
Nope. Not if you KNOW napkins impart substances that tone and corrode coins. A lot depends on your know-how, methods and motivation to keep these coins properly preserved.
It sounds like you’re making intent a significant part of the definition of doctoring or artificial toning. That can be problematic and lead to silly sounding distinctions.
For example, if two people place coins in a coin cabinet lined with napkins or other material that can cause them to tone, but only one of the persons is aware of that, based on what you wrote, only the one with knowledge is a coin doctor and/or is responsible for artificial toning. The toning’s the same, regardless of intent. So it should be labeled the same in both cases.
Then lets outlaw artificial toning entirely rather than promoting coin corrosion.
LOL!
You'd have to outlaw all toning.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Damn! I meant to write all toning. All collections will have to be stored in mineral oil and helium. Beautifully toned coins would be tossed into junk boxes or melted.
@fluffy155 said:
Addressing the original question, I have an inexpensive silver world coin that I really like but is unnaturally bright. Over a period of 3 years I left it on the windowsill bare, then wrapped in a napkin, finally I tried placing it in an old leather pouch on the furnace.
I was just hoping to mellow it a bit, but sadly there was little (if any) change. I'm not a very good doctor, apparently.
I'm not either. I tried to tone this coin (55/54 WB-2) down with leaf detritus in a bag situated in a window for months. Nothing.
Too "clean". There is nothing to tone. Never dip a low grade coin or if you don't know what you're doing. A Wayte-Raymond holder may help coins that are generally ok, but it takes long periods of time.
The sun is not doing anything but what is happening is that the coins are being heated and cooled speeding oxidation. Gold has copper in it so I can see it also occurring albeit at a slower rate.
@Clackamas1 said:
The sun is not doing anything but what is happening is that the coins are being heated and cooled speeding oxidation. Gold has copper in it so I can see it also occurring albeit at a slower rate.
Maybe if you live in Sulfur Valley. The OP said hairlines and "slowly" was a month per the OP. So a copper cent would have toned in, what? 24 hours?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@fluffy155 said:
Addressing the original question, I have an inexpensive silver world coin that I really like but is unnaturally bright. Over a period of 3 years I left it on the windowsill bare, then wrapped in a napkin, finally I tried placing it in an old leather pouch on the furnace.
I was just hoping to mellow it a bit, but sadly there was little (if any) change. I'm not a very good doctor, apparently.
I'm not either. I tried to tone this coin (55/54 WB-2) down with leaf detritus in a bag situated in a window for months. Nothing.
Too "clean". There is nothing to tone. Never dip a low grade coin or if you don't know what you're doing. A Wayte-Raymond holder may help coins that are generally ok, but it takes long periods of time.
I don't clean coins at all. This coin was purchased like this. There are a lot of hairlines, but there is no evidence of cleaning besides the bright dip. Though the seller runs a coin shop, they don't know much about coins and priced it as an 1855. AU 55/54 prices range from $600-1200 retail, so I took a chance on this coin at under half price. Now if I can just tone it down a bit...
@MFeld said:
It sounds like you’re making intent a significant part of the definition of doctoring or artificial toning. That can be problematic and lead to... silly... sounding distinctions.
.
Just label them as,..."SILLY", Naturally Toned.
@SoCalBigMark said:
Rollo tried conservation on his TDN seated dollar with an eraser then used the edge of another large silver coin to make it less noticable.
Wow. Are you serious? That is an MS-66.
If so, there does look like a possible disturbance between ONE and the eagle's claw to the left.
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
@fluffy155 said:
Addressing the original question, I have an inexpensive silver world coin that I really like but is unnaturally bright. Over a period of 3 years I left it on the windowsill bare, then wrapped in a napkin, finally I tried placing it in an old leather pouch on the furnace.
I was just hoping to mellow it a bit, but sadly there was little (if any) change. I'm not a very good doctor, apparently.
I assume this was a shipwreck coin? Most are, which would greatly affect the ability to retone. Much different from a fresh merc dime. Notice that nearly all lion daalders are blast white when encountered on the market.
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
BHNC #AN-10
JRCS #1606
It could be, though there is no sign of seawater corrosion (and as a collector of Mexico cobs I am very familiar with the shipwreck effect). I'm curious why you say most Leeuwendaalders were shipwreck coins, I'm only aware of the Campen wreck which yielded a few daalders. My impression was that most of the daalders we have come from North American and Eastern European merchant hoards, and the common blast white nature is due to cleaning upon discovery (primarily in Europe).
Like I said that's just my impression, if you know of a reference work on lion daalders I'd love to pick it up... I've looked before but never found one.
Comments
I'm not either. I tried to tone this coin (55/54 WB-2) down with leaf detritus in a bag situated in a window for months. Nothing.
You'd have to outlaw all toning.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Damn! I meant to write all toning. All collections will have to be stored in mineral oil and helium. Beautifully toned coins would be tossed into junk boxes or melted.
...
Too "clean". There is nothing to tone. Never dip a low grade coin or if you don't know what you're doing. A Wayte-Raymond holder may help coins that are generally ok, but it takes long periods of time.
The sun is not doing anything but what is happening is that the coins are being heated and cooled speeding oxidation. Gold has copper in it so I can see it also occurring albeit at a slower rate.
Maybe if you live in Sulfur Valley. The OP said hairlines and "slowly" was a month per the OP. So a copper cent would have toned in, what? 24 hours?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I don't clean coins at all. This coin was purchased like this. There are a lot of hairlines, but there is no evidence of cleaning besides the bright dip. Though the seller runs a coin shop, they don't know much about coins and priced it as an 1855. AU 55/54 prices range from $600-1200 retail, so I took a chance on this coin at under half price. Now if I can just tone it down a bit...
@MFeld said:
It sounds like you’re making intent a significant part of the definition of doctoring or artificial toning. That can be problematic and lead to... silly... sounding distinctions.
.
Just label them as,..."SILLY", Naturally Toned.
Rollo tried conservation on his TDN seated dollar with an eraser then used the edge of another large silver coin to make it less noticable.
Wow. Are you serious? That is an MS-66.
If so, there does look like a possible disturbance between ONE and the eagle's claw to the left.
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
To answer OP question- yes. Windowsill, along with Wayte Raymond boards, Kraft envelopes, Taco Bell napkins, ... guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty.
I assume this was a shipwreck coin? Most are, which would greatly affect the ability to retone. Much different from a fresh merc dime. Notice that nearly all lion daalders are blast white when encountered on the market.
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
BHNC #AN-10
JRCS #1606
It could be, though there is no sign of seawater corrosion (and as a collector of Mexico cobs I am very familiar with the shipwreck effect). I'm curious why you say most Leeuwendaalders were shipwreck coins, I'm only aware of the Campen wreck which yielded a few daalders. My impression was that most of the daalders we have come from North American and Eastern European merchant hoards, and the common blast white nature is due to cleaning upon discovery (primarily in Europe).
Like I said that's just my impression, if you know of a reference work on lion daalders I'd love to pick it up... I've looked before but never found one.