AI Overview
Production numbers for Fleer Glossy sets were estimated to be between 75,000–100,000 for the 1987 set, 40,000–60,000 for the 1988 Update Glossy set, 60,000 for the 1988 Glossy set, and 30,000 for the 1989 Glossy set. These sets were produced as factory-only issues, not through traditional packs, and were less plentiful than their regular-issue counterparts.
1987 Fleer Glossy: Estimated 75,000–100,000 sets.
1988 Fleer Glossy: Estimated 60,000 sets.
1988 Fleer Update Glossy: Estimated 40,000–60,000 sets.
1989 Fleer Glossy: Estimated 30,000 sets.
AI Overview
Topps Tiffany set production numbers were low compared to regular sets, ranging from 5,000 to 30,000 sets per year between 1984 and 1991. The highest production occurred in 1987 with 30,000 sets, while lower numbers like 5,000 were produced in 1985, 1986, and 1991. The 1989 and 1990 sets had 25,000 and 15,000 sets, respectively.
1984: 10,000 sets
1985: 5,000 sets
1986: 5,000 sets
1987: 30,000 sets (highest production)
1988: 25,000 sets
1989: 25,000 sets
1990: 15,000 sets
1991: 5,000 sets (maximum, and the lowest production year along with 1985 and 1986)
These Tiffany numbers are the same as numbers I've seen posted before. I've never looked up Fleer Glossy numbers before. I have a couple Fleer Glossy sets. The ones I have are mostly off center.
I was asking about the Donruss Baseball's Best factory sets. I also checked the AI synopsis but looked at the sources and the info was a little suspect.
The numbers on Tiffany are probably right. These are numbers I've heard before. As far back as the late 80s or early 90s for some of them. Pre internet. My 87 set is #13370. They print the number on the box.
Glossy is probably close too. The glossy stuff is available. My 87 Fleer glossy set is #27244
Most everything in both of these sets is off center though.
There are a lot of those Donruss box sets.
I think the Randy Johnson Classic card is kinda cool. 163 10s. 246 total pop.
trout killebrew banks -- all great players, but the playoffs left them behind. and who is paying a million dollars for killebrew or banks?
Banks sells on par with Yogi Berra or maybe even a little more...depending how you compare the various issues/high# factor/condition sensitivity of the sets they are in.
Berra has the most rings in MLB history and three MVP's.
There are so many variables to pinpoint a single factor to beat your head up about it.
I personally wouldn't buy Trout's cards at this point at today's prices because he did piss away his career status these last five years. He is still an easy HOFer, but I would want him to hit 600 HR for me to feel good about more price increases from today's value.
But then again, Jim Thome has 600 home runs and nobody even cares about his cards.
@GoTigers said:
What would people consider a “good” price on a Trout PSA 10 rookie right now? And, considering his current tragedy where do you see it in 5 years?
If I was going to buy an active player I would go with Ohtani. His fan base is going to be big for a long time and he will have four MVP's after this year. I don't think anyone would have thought five years ago that he would be a contender for 500 home runs, but he is now too.
Trout is still a bit of a gamble right now. He is pretty safe for the HOF unless some off field scandal changes things(which is true for any active player). He is under contract for FIVE more years and while his skill set has really slipped he still retains light tower power, so he will get his home runs.
If Trout has four more seasons exactly like his 2025 he would end with 500+ Home Runs and a 158ish OPS+.
I have no idea what a good price for his card is right now.
I think that could end up being a great investment. But think it has some risk/volatility similar to a stock that has gone up 50% in a month on no news. I would say Judge is maybe not an all-in bet but a push a few chips in bet. Either way you could win the hand.
But he fails the eye test in an off the charts way. Which can work when you are popular and loved and he is. I think there is a decent chance he goes through his whole career and life without much accusation of PED use or a failed test. But wouldn't want to bet everything on it.
In his 20s, he was about a .270 hitter. Which actually is pretty incredible because as a prospect he had a 40 hit tool and looked like a guy who may not do much at the major league level because of it. In his 20s, he had a 1 HR per 13 AB ratio. The rookie season was excellent. What followed ages 26 to 29 was very good but not extraordinary. Prime years are included in the 20s and that is where the top production should come from. So he was looking like a great contributor, an above average player but absolutely not looking like a HOFer. Which is probably why the Yankees were not looking to give him a megadeal in his last year under contract.
Then he turned 30, the age where decline can start to become a thing. And his performance skyrocketed. He started doing a Benjamin Button thing. But it was not even that because his performance so blew away his 20s performance. His 40 hit tool and .270 average became .311 .322 and .331, which included a batting title. I'd be interested to know if anyone with a 40 hit tool besides him ever became a batting champion. His very impressive 1 HR in 13 ABs from his 20s improved to 1 in 9 in his 30s, basically going from being a Jay Bruce guy in his 20s to a Babe Ruth guy in his 30s.
I have watched a lot of baseball and its hard to remember anybody making that jump from their 20s to their 30s without a major eyebrow raising or evidence of PED use. I think his career almost perfectly mirrors Sammy Sosa's career and that did not end well for him and his cards.
I have no doubt he recognizes pitches better. I think the "why" is the issue. I think there is a misconception about what steroids and some PEDs do. I feel like it is believed it just makes you stronger. So a 20 HR guy becomes a 30 to 50 HR guy cause now the ball goes 30 more feet, fly balls become HRs. But I think what makes PEDs work so well for baseball players and hitters is it builds up the fast twitch muscle fibers and helps with quick bursts of energy.
I think that can help with BA. I remember watching Ortiz and Manny and of course Bonds and you could tell, there is just no way on Earth you are throwing a ball past that guy even its 103. They just looked so ready to explode on the ball. For me that fits with why a .270 hitter in his 20s is a .333 hitter as a 33-year-old. I'm not sure its steroids. I used Creatine when I was younger and it does that. But only used it for two months or so because it did make me feel like I was about to jump out of my skin. Was easy to make the weights fly around while I used it though.
Its possible he is just wiser and smarter and it adds 60 points to his batting average. Just not what I think. And yeah the injuries kept his totals down. Very injured in his 20s, very healthy now that he is older. He was not healthy then which kept the HR totals low but also the HR per at bat was just a lot lower.
Judge hit .284 his first full season w/52 HR's and swing an missed lot more than now.... if not for outright cheating by the Astros and Altuve, he woudl have been the 2017 MVP.
.330 was only this season. Dude got a bunch of lucky bounces and lot of friendly, if not outright egregious, home town official scoring all of which easily added 15-20 points.
BTW same type things can also be said about Ohtani and his being able to pull double duty on mound and at plate.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972) Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me 2025
But I think what makes PEDs work so well for baseball players and hitters is it builds up the fast twitch muscle fibers and helps with quick bursts of energy.
Anabolic steroids are not known to improve speed, coordination, or reaction times. While they do increase the muscle size that bulking effect only increases strength.
Corticosteroids actually have the opposite effect.
If you're talking about PEDs you know there's a lot of stuff there to unpack so I don't know, but I don't think I see a Sosa like performance curve with Judge. He was a bit unlucky with that wrist injury and then the oblique.
Who is saying Ohtani doesn't? I hope he doesn't just like I'm sure a lot hope Judge doesn't. But wouldn't be surprised. And at the end of the day I liked watching Sosa and McGwire and Bonds play so for me PEDs dont make you a villain and a horrible human.
Comments
AI Overview
Production numbers for Fleer Glossy sets were estimated to be between 75,000–100,000 for the 1987 set, 40,000–60,000 for the 1988 Update Glossy set, 60,000 for the 1988 Glossy set, and 30,000 for the 1989 Glossy set. These sets were produced as factory-only issues, not through traditional packs, and were less plentiful than their regular-issue counterparts.
1987 Fleer Glossy: Estimated 75,000–100,000 sets.
1988 Fleer Glossy: Estimated 60,000 sets.
1988 Fleer Update Glossy: Estimated 40,000–60,000 sets.
1989 Fleer Glossy: Estimated 30,000 sets.
AI Overview
Topps Tiffany set production numbers were low compared to regular sets, ranging from 5,000 to 30,000 sets per year between 1984 and 1991. The highest production occurred in 1987 with 30,000 sets, while lower numbers like 5,000 were produced in 1985, 1986, and 1991. The 1989 and 1990 sets had 25,000 and 15,000 sets, respectively.
1984: 10,000 sets
1985: 5,000 sets
1986: 5,000 sets
1987: 30,000 sets (highest production)
1988: 25,000 sets
1989: 25,000 sets
1990: 15,000 sets
1991: 5,000 sets (maximum, and the lowest production year along with 1985 and 1986)
These Tiffany numbers are the same as numbers I've seen posted before. I've never looked up Fleer Glossy numbers before. I have a couple Fleer Glossy sets. The ones I have are mostly off center.
I was asking about the Donruss Baseball's Best factory sets. I also checked the AI synopsis but looked at the sources and the info was a little suspect.
The numbers on Tiffany are probably right. These are numbers I've heard before. As far back as the late 80s or early 90s for some of them. Pre internet. My 87 set is #13370. They print the number on the box.
Glossy is probably close too. The glossy stuff is available. My 87 Fleer glossy set is #27244
Most everything in both of these sets is off center though.
There are a lot of those Donruss box sets.
I think the Randy Johnson Classic card is kinda cool. 163 10s. 246 total pop.
I'm not sure, there seems to be about twenty on ebay right now.
Prices range from $40.00-65.00.
I was buying when they were going for $25.00. Griffey's go for about $700.00 in PSA 10.
The top card in most cells has problems with the corners being bent back. Very hard to get a Gem Bo Jackson, Mattingly, Sheffield or Canseco.
Griffey and Johnson are not affected by the wrapping. Cards are generally well centered.
I have 3 Griffey's at PSA right now.
I still have the set I got from Costco 36 years ago. My brother opened his. I left mine sealed.
Banks sells on par with Yogi Berra or maybe even a little more...depending how you compare the various issues/high# factor/condition sensitivity of the sets they are in.
Berra has the most rings in MLB history and three MVP's.
There are so many variables to pinpoint a single factor to beat your head up about it.
I personally wouldn't buy Trout's cards at this point at today's prices because he did piss away his career status these last five years. He is still an easy HOFer, but I would want him to hit 600 HR for me to feel good about more price increases from today's value.
But then again, Jim Thome has 600 home runs and nobody even cares about his cards.
What would people consider a “good” price on a Trout PSA 10 rookie right now? And, considering his current tragedy where do you see it in 5 years?
Ha! I meant “trajectory”. Maybe I was correct the first time.
If I was going to buy an active player I would go with Ohtani. His fan base is going to be big for a long time and he will have four MVP's after this year. I don't think anyone would have thought five years ago that he would be a contender for 500 home runs, but he is now too.
Trout is still a bit of a gamble right now. He is pretty safe for the HOF unless some off field scandal changes things(which is true for any active player). He is under contract for FIVE more years and while his skill set has really slipped he still retains light tower power, so he will get his home runs.
If Trout has four more seasons exactly like his 2025 he would end with 500+ Home Runs and a 158ish OPS+.
I have no idea what a good price for his card is right now.
Judge too, he's a stud.
I think that could end up being a great investment. But think it has some risk/volatility similar to a stock that has gone up 50% in a month on no news. I would say Judge is maybe not an all-in bet but a push a few chips in bet. Either way you could win the hand.
But he fails the eye test in an off the charts way. Which can work when you are popular and loved and he is. I think there is a decent chance he goes through his whole career and life without much accusation of PED use or a failed test. But wouldn't want to bet everything on it.
In his 20s, he was about a .270 hitter. Which actually is pretty incredible because as a prospect he had a 40 hit tool and looked like a guy who may not do much at the major league level because of it. In his 20s, he had a 1 HR per 13 AB ratio. The rookie season was excellent. What followed ages 26 to 29 was very good but not extraordinary. Prime years are included in the 20s and that is where the top production should come from. So he was looking like a great contributor, an above average player but absolutely not looking like a HOFer. Which is probably why the Yankees were not looking to give him a megadeal in his last year under contract.
Then he turned 30, the age where decline can start to become a thing. And his performance skyrocketed. He started doing a Benjamin Button thing. But it was not even that because his performance so blew away his 20s performance. His 40 hit tool and .270 average became .311 .322 and .331, which included a batting title. I'd be interested to know if anyone with a 40 hit tool besides him ever became a batting champion. His very impressive 1 HR in 13 ABs from his 20s improved to 1 in 9 in his 30s, basically going from being a Jay Bruce guy in his 20s to a Babe Ruth guy in his 30s.
I have watched a lot of baseball and its hard to remember anybody making that jump from their 20s to their 30s without a major eyebrow raising or evidence of PED use. I think his career almost perfectly mirrors Sammy Sosa's career and that did not end well for him and his cards.
^ large part IMHO was improved pitch recognition.
Also injured a lot early on which held totals down. His rookie year and now is about the same but with better takes at the plate....
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me 2025
I have no doubt he recognizes pitches better. I think the "why" is the issue. I think there is a misconception about what steroids and some PEDs do. I feel like it is believed it just makes you stronger. So a 20 HR guy becomes a 30 to 50 HR guy cause now the ball goes 30 more feet, fly balls become HRs. But I think what makes PEDs work so well for baseball players and hitters is it builds up the fast twitch muscle fibers and helps with quick bursts of energy.
I think that can help with BA. I remember watching Ortiz and Manny and of course Bonds and you could tell, there is just no way on Earth you are throwing a ball past that guy even its 103. They just looked so ready to explode on the ball. For me that fits with why a .270 hitter in his 20s is a .333 hitter as a 33-year-old. I'm not sure its steroids. I used Creatine when I was younger and it does that. But only used it for two months or so because it did make me feel like I was about to jump out of my skin. Was easy to make the weights fly around while I used it though.
Its possible he is just wiser and smarter and it adds 60 points to his batting average. Just not what I think. And yeah the injuries kept his totals down. Very injured in his 20s, very healthy now that he is older. He was not healthy then which kept the HR totals low but also the HR per at bat was just a lot lower.
Judge hit .284 his first full season w/52 HR's and swing an missed lot more than now.... if not for outright cheating by the Astros and Altuve, he woudl have been the 2017 MVP.
.330 was only this season. Dude got a bunch of lucky bounces and lot of friendly, if not outright egregious, home town official scoring all of which easily added 15-20 points.
BTW same type things can also be said about Ohtani and his being able to pull double duty on mound and at plate.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me 2025
Anabolic steroids are not known to improve speed, coordination, or reaction times. While they do increase the muscle size that bulking effect only increases strength.
Corticosteroids actually have the opposite effect.
If you're talking about PEDs you know there's a lot of stuff there to unpack so I don't know, but I don't think I see a Sosa like performance curve with Judge. He was a bit unlucky with that wrist injury and then the oblique.
Judge does PED and Ohtani doesn't? hmmm......
wreaks of an agenda, right
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me 2025
Who is saying Ohtani doesn't? I hope he doesn't just like I'm sure a lot hope Judge doesn't. But wouldn't be surprised. And at the end of the day I liked watching Sosa and McGwire and Bonds play so for me PEDs dont make you a villain and a horrible human.