Billy Pierce... HOF?
coinkat
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I was reading up on Al Lopez and the White Sox. Lopez' tenure as Manager obviously started at Chicago after his success at Cleveland. And in looking over the players and rosters, it seems Lopez did more with less than perhaps any manager in MLB history. Billy Pierce was the star the Sox starting rotation before Lopez arrived and was later traded to the Giants in the early 1960s. Pierce added to the Giants pennant charge in the 1962 season whereby they beat out the Dodgers in a dramatic playoff.
Pierce put up some impressive numbers... but are the numbers enough for the HOF? He was often compared to Whitey Ford but did not have the offensive support created by Mantle, Berra, Bauer, Maris and Skowron among others. Pierce had faced the Yankees more than any other AL Team and posted a record of 25-37. And for those critical of his record against the NYY, let's keep it in perspective. Pierce's record is better than that of the NL pennant winners in World Series play over the span of his career. His overall record was 211-169 with an ERA of 3.27 with 1999 strike outs. For those that place a value on WAR, his was 53.4.
Has Pierce been overlooked?
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I don't know if he was overlooked for the HOF, but he is another pitcher among a large group that were better than Jack Morris.
Ford had a 2.76 ERA to Pierce's 3.27 and was also ahead in ERA+ 133 to 119...which leads the evidence to show it comes down to more than run support separating those two, but it is comparable I guess, just not super close in baseball terms.
However, if the Cy Young award was given(and then also voted in the same manner) back then the way it is now, I would say Pierce deserved two Cy Young awards. 1953 and 1955. Would also have a second place finish in 1952.
That would have been a heckuva prime and he really did have an excellent prime.
There were no Cy Young awards issued until 1956 and then when it started, writers only listed one pitcher(not ranking them like now) and it was only one winner for the entire MLB(which I know you are aware of already, but just saying).
I will add that Pierce is every bit as comparable as Bob Lemon, Don Drysdale, Early Wynn, and Juan Marichal who are all HOF pitchers form that era(or close by era).....so yeah, maybe he is overlooked when looking from that perspective.
In comparing Pierce to Ford, there was an interesting stat in connection with complete games- Pierce had a 193-156 edge and an edge with strike outs 1999-1956. Ford started in 438 games and Pierce started in 433. I am not suggesting in any way that Pierce was better. However, Pierce deserves more consideration as do some other players that had excellent careers on the CUSP of the HOF,
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I looked at all 6 guys, considering a full year 200+ innings pitched (actually as low as 196), ERA+ and WAR. Then went to WHIP, hits, SO and BB per 9 innings. Did not bother to look at wins and losses.
Marichal and Drysdale are vastly superior to Lemon, Wynn, Pierce and (I hate to even write his name here) Morris.
In fact, if you compare Marichal's numbers from 63-69 to Koufax's from 1960-66, they are almost identical. Of course you get at least 3 more solid years from Juan and pretty much nothing else from Sandy.
I would rank Pierce ahead of Lemon, Morris and Wynn. Wynn has 611 starts and 691 appearances, but only had 4 (?) great years. Pierce had about 5 superior seasons, but only 433 starts. Looking at Wynn's best 14 years, 450 or so starts, doesn't improve his numbers much.
Morris' best year he didn't even pitch 200 innings.
Lemon only had 350 starts, but missed 3 years in the military. Hard to say what he would have done with more seasons.
Pierce should get strong consideration for the HOF and not just because Morris is in. He earned it!
I remember Morris most for that that game 7 against Atlanta. And for that Tigers series win. And also for his junker with Toronto. But he was a bulldog and I have no issue with him being in the Hall of Fame. Harold Baines can stay too. I think there’s less deserving guys to argue about.
I think Pierce wouldn’t be out of place but I did kind of roll my eyes regarding the inclusion of Marichal in that list…. I think Marichal is quite underrated and he held his own in comparison to Gibson and Koufax during that period.
Well, clobering a catcher over the head with a baseball bat will tend to hurt your legacy.
Not to highjack the thread, but I recently found the '58 topps Roseboro Rookie card.
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There’s a whole story regarding that incident. If that is affecting Marichal’s legacy somehow I’m simply not aware of it.