Fugio cent question

Raufus

Hi All,

Jumping on the all of the very interesting recent Fugio cent topics, I'd appreciate advice from those who know these coins.

I'm primarily on the moderns threads (NCLT, modern cra*, Mint garbage, etc to may classics folks). That said, I love some of the classics. I live near Baltimore and get to that show with some frequeny where I very much enjoy looking at all manner of classics, colonials and even ancients - all of which I have a few of, but not much knowledge of.

I bought a Fugio raw years ago. I have to figure out where I put it. That said, I'm sure it's not a high grade example. I would like to get a higher grade one. However, I have very little knowledge of these coins. Thanks to recent threads I know more than I used to.

I'd appreciate any input as to where the sweet spot is if one wanted to get a nice examply but not at tremendous cost. Can one get a nice (relative term I know) example in the $4K range for instance? If so, which kind and grade would those who know these recommend?

Despit their being over 230 years old, basesd on recent threads it seems that they've gone up in recent times. Is this correct? If so, why all of the sudden when they've been around for so long?

Thanks very much for any advice. Please excuse my lack of knowlede of these most interesting coins. I'm trying to learn.

GuzziSport

@Raufus Yes, you can get a really nice original XF-AU example, often CAC’d, in the $4k range. Look for a nice glossy chocolate planchet, even strike, and minimal flaws. That’s where I’d be hunting. Hint hint, CRO seems to always have a few really nice original Fugios, which surprises me not one bit. (My apologies in advance if plugging a dealer here is bad form, if it is let me know and I won’t do it again.)

Raufus

@GuzziSport said:
@Raufus Yes, you can get a really nice original XF-AU example, often CAC’d, in the $4k range. Look for a nice glossy chocolate planchet, even strike, and minimal flaws. That’s where I’d be hunting. Hint hint, CRO seems to always have a few really nice original Fugios, which surprises me not one bit. (My apologies in advance if plugging a dealer here is bad form, if it is let me know and I won’t do it again.)

Awesome!!! Thanks so much for the information. When I finally get one I will be sure to post it.

Most appreciated!!!

Raufus

I meant to ask if it is possible to find out if a given one is from the New York bank hoard.

lcutler

@Raufus said:
I meant to ask if it is possible to find out if a given one is from the New York bank hoard.

All of the coins in the Bank of New York horde were uncirculated, I think it's safe to say the vast majority of uncirculated Fugios today came from it.

124Spider

FWIW:

I bought this one a few months ago from David Lawrence Rare Coins (highly reputable auction house/dealer). It cost $2250 plus shipping.

I think it is "nice," especially as a fairly high grade, but still having the romance of having been circulated in the early days of our country's existence. YMMV

Raufus

Thanks so much for the info!!
It is most appreciated.
Congrats on the beautiful coin, Spider! Just fantastic.

Raufus

@lcutler said:

@Raufus said:
I meant to ask if it is possible to find out if a given one is from the New York bank hoard.

All of the coins in the Bank of New York horde were uncirculated, I think it's safe to say the vast majority of uncirculated Fugios today came from it.

I keep reading that it was a "keg" of coins. Does anyone know approximately how many that there were?

What a cool sight that must have been!!

yosclimber

@Raufus said:

@lcutler said:

@Raufus said:
I meant to ask if it is possible to find out if a given one is from the New York bank hoard.

All of the coins in the Bank of New York horde were uncirculated, I think it's safe to say the vast majority of uncirculated Fugios today came from it.

I keep reading that it was a "keg" of coins. Does anyone know approximately how many that there were?

1,641

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_of_New_York_Hoard

airplanenut

There are many dealers who carry them so this is by no means meant to exclude anyone else, but John Agre at Coin Rarities Online has always been really helpful when I’ve had questions about coinage from that era (whether copper or other), in particular when looking for a type example because you want the sweet spot of a variety that comes nice but also isn’t (relatively) expensive. He routinely has them in inventory/on his early bird email list, and he sets up at most major shows.

It’s a design I’ve always liked, and like you, one of these days I’m going to upgrade to a really nice one. It’s not quite there on my priority/funds list just yet.

Raufus

Thanks very much for the information!!

Most appreciated!

Raufus

@yosclimber said:

@Raufus said:

@lcutler said:

@Raufus said:
I meant to ask if it is possible to find out if a given one is from the New York bank hoard.

All of the coins in the Bank of New York horde were uncirculated, I think it's safe to say the vast majority of uncirculated Fugios today came from it.

I keep reading that it was a "keg" of coins. Does anyone know approximately how many that there were?

1,641

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_of_New_York_Hoard

Looks like 1641 remained at the time in the 40s. Sounds like there must have been a good deal more upon initial discovery. Incredible story!

lkenefic

I've worked with Pierre Fricke from time to time on other early copper. I know he had a bunch of Fugios... not sure if any of them were from the NY Bank Hoard. Hope this helps.

MidLifeCrisis

@GuzziSport said:
@Raufus Yes, you can get a really nice original XF-AU example, often CAC’d, in the $4k range. Look for a nice glossy chocolate planchet, even strike, and minimal flaws. That’s where I’d be hunting. Hint hint, CRO seems to always have a few really nice original Fugios, which surprises me not one bit. (My apologies in advance if plugging a dealer here is bad form, if it is let me know and I won’t do it again.)

I agree with GuzziSport...with a couple of caveats.

I'm a fan of CAC and I prefer that my coins have the sticker. However, I don't think a CAC sticker is nearly as important with colonial era coins as it is with more modern US issues. I think CAC stopped stickering colonials a few years ago. So if you find a nice coin that you like, don't let the absence of a CAC sticker stop you from adding it to your collection.

I would not look for a glossy coin. The term gives me a negative impression when I see it used to describe a coin. I immediately think of the "wet" look that some conserved copper has. That said, a lot of early copper has been brushed, oiled, lacquered, waxed or otherwise "conserved" and you may be ok with buying those coins. Personally, I shy away from them and seek out coins that I believe are original...but I recognize that conserving copper has been a widely accepted practice in the hobby for years.

In my opinion, color and surface quality are the most important aspects of early copper and other colonial era coins. I prefer a smooth, hard planchet with a nice, even warm color that reminds me of milk chocolate.

On Fugios, I also look for strike and completeness of the "Mind Your Business" motto. Most Fugios do not have a complete motto, but I look for examples with the majority of the motto clear and well-struck.

I recommend getting an 8 Pointed Stars Fugio (Newman 15-Y variety). They are less common (Rarity-2) and relatively inexpensive, nice ones can be found.

As for their increased popularity and price in recent years, I'm sure this has a lot to do with it:

"...in a 2022 press release...PCGS officially reclassified the Fugio Cent as a regular-issue U.S. Mint coin, rather than a colonial coin, based on newly presented evidence regarding its authorization and coining. PCGS experts concluded that the coin was legally authorized by the Confederation Congress in 1787, making it the first official circulation coin of the United States..."

As GuzziSport and others have said, I recommend you contact John Agre at Coin Rarities Online. I'm very confident he'll point you in the right direction and help you add the right Fugio to your collection.

Raufus

Thanks so much folks, yet again!

I really appreciate the detailed post Midlife. It was most kind of you to take the time to write it. Super helpful!! Thanks!!!

GuzziSport

CRO has two VERY nice original circulated fugios at the moment….
@MidLifeCrisis , as to CAC, yes I agree with you that, particularly with colonials, lack of a sticker is certainly not a deal breaker… I’m a passionate collector of Vermonts, and only two of my nearly 50 examples are stickered. But that said, I do believe a sticker makes a coin more liquid come resale time, so it’s not without value to me… and while it’s anecdotal, seems to me that a higher percentage of Fugios are stickered than any other colonial issue that I’ve seen… just an aside.
BTW the Fugios at CRO I reference above are both stickered.

oldabeintx

Anyone, when did CAC stop stickering colonials?

PeakRarities

CAC will sticker Fugios and Continental dollars still, they just stopped stickering colonials some years ago but IDK how long.

GuzziSport

@PeakRarities said:
CAC will sticker Fugios and Continental dollars still, they just stopped stickering colonials some years ago but IDK how long.

Didn’t realize that, good to know, thanks!

johnny9434

@airplanenut said:
There are many dealers who carry them so this is by no means meant to exclude anyone else, but John Agre at Coin Rarities Online has always been really helpful when I’ve had questions about coinage from that era (whether copper or other), in particular when looking for a type example because you want the sweet spot of a variety that comes nice but also isn’t (relatively) expensive. He routinely has them in inventory/on his early bird email list, and he sets up at most major shows.

It’s a design I’ve always liked, and like you, one of these days I’m going to upgrade to a really nice one. It’s not quite there on my priority/funds list just yet.

Cro has usually carried fugios threw the year and steady 👍