Coins and Counterfeits

heavymetal

My device screens are inundated by ads for Proof ASE for $29.99. Silver Bars, buy three get two free. Also available are many different types of rare coins in alleged PCGS plastic no less, all phony. Ebay, Facebook, Etsy, Shopify, etc are all conduits for these merchants of fake plus the multitudes of Flea Markets and Estate Sales. Someone will eventually realize their loved one or themselves have been misled and there will be hell to pay somewhere.

My Question: Has there ever been another time in US history when the Secret Service turned an apparent blind eye to counterfeiting the US Coinage?

Here are some classic counterfeits that were taken out of circulation in the mid 20th Century:

MFeld

“ My Question: Has there ever been another time in US history when the Secret Service turned an apparent blind eye to counterfeiting the US Coinage?”

Whatever the degree of blind eye that you think is being turned, when, in the past, do you believe it was different than today? I don’t see the present situation as being noticeably different from the past many years.

lermish

@MFeld said:

Whatever the degree of blind eye that you think is being turned, when, in the past, do you believe it was different than today? I don’t see the present situation as being noticeably different from the past many years.

You're exactly right but I think the primary cause of this very common incorrect line of thought is the internet/technology.

In the past, things that were uncommon or rare were rarely observed. Now we have evidence/information/video of many uncommon things and the human mind is really bad at figuring out likelihoods and statistics. (I would argue that the average coin collector is even worse than the general population based on demographics but I don't have firm data to back that up.)

We see this fallacy all the time here on the forum relating to parcel shipping woes but it also applies to a great many facets of modern life.

Sapyx

Of course the Secret Service cares about these counterfeits. There's just not much they can do to stop them.

As I've pointed out elsewhere... the actual production of counterfeits is all happening overseas, in countries like China where making fake US currency is perfectly legal. The people "committing crimes" are the ones who are going onto eBay/Alibaba/etc, buying them, and importing them.

The Secret Service can hunt down and prosecute any US-based importers and anyone on US soil who knowingly on-sells a fake as genuine, but the actual counterfeiters are all overseas. And the only way to stop them is to either (a) invade and annex China, or (b) spend trillions of dollars and hire a large proportion of the entire US population as Border Security agents to open and inspect every single shipping container, parcel and letter coming into the country.

Apart from that, "enforcement" of US law regarding the importation of counterfeits is essentially left in the hands of the marketplace platforms - relying on eBay etc to have good policies in place to stop the counterfeits. The US government could in theory ban the use of foreign sales platforms such as Temu and Alibaba, but that won't work for US-based platforms like eBay. And the only way eBay can stop the trade is to either (a) ban Chinese sellers from its platform entirely - which eBay won't do because they're addicted to the profits these Chinese sellers are giving them, or (b) hire thousands of actual human experts who examine every single listing posted on their platform before it's approved for launch.

jmlanzaf

@Sapyx said:
Of course the Secret Service cares about these counterfeits. There's just not much they can do to stop them.

As I've pointed out elsewhere... the actual production of counterfeits is all happening overseas, in countries like China where making fake US currency is perfectly legal. The people "committing crimes" are the ones who are going onto eBay/Alibaba/etc, buying them, and importing them.

The Secret Service can hunt down and prosecute any US-based importers and anyone on US soil who knowingly on-sells a fake as genuine, but the actual counterfeiters are all overseas. And the only way to stop them is to either (a) invade and annex China, or (b) spend trillions of dollars and hire a large proportion of the entire US population as Border Security agents to open and inspect every single shipping container, parcel and letter coming into the country.

Apart from that, "enforcement" of US law regarding the importation of counterfeits is essentially left in the hands of the marketplace platforms - relying on eBay etc to have good policies in place to stop the counterfeits. The US government could in theory ban the use of foreign sales platforms such as Temu and Alibaba, but that won't work for US-based platforms like eBay. And the only way eBay can stop the trade is to either (a) ban Chinese sellers from its platform entirely - which eBay won't do because they're addicted to the profits these Chinese sellers are giving them, or (b) hire thousands of actual human experts who examine every single listing posted on their platform before it's approved for launch.

The sellers of fakes on eBay are NOT all "Chinese sellers".

4Redisin

@jmlanzaf said:

@Sapyx said:
Of course the Secret Service cares about these counterfeits. There's just not much they can do to stop them.

As I've pointed out elsewhere... the actual production of counterfeits is all happening overseas, in countries like China where making fake US currency is perfectly legal. The people "committing crimes" are the ones who are going onto eBay/Alibaba/etc, buying them, and importing them.

The Secret Service can hunt down and prosecute any US-based importers and anyone on US soil who knowingly on-sells a fake as genuine, but the actual counterfeiters are all overseas. And the only way to stop them is to either (a) invade and annex China, or (b) spend trillions of dollars and hire a large proportion of the entire US population as Border Security agents to open and inspect every single shipping container, parcel and letter coming into the country.

Apart from that, "enforcement" of US law regarding the importation of counterfeits is essentially left in the hands of the marketplace platforms - relying on eBay etc to have good policies in place to stop the counterfeits. The US government could in theory ban the use of foreign sales platforms such as Temu and Alibaba, but that won't work for US-based platforms like eBay. And the only way eBay can stop the trade is to either (a) ban Chinese sellers from its platform entirely - which eBay won't do because they're addicted to the profits these Chinese sellers are giving them, or (b) hire thousands of actual human experts who examine every single listing posted on their platform before it's approved for launch.

The sellers of fakes on eBay are NOT all "Chinese sellers".

Who would have guessed? Thanks for pointing that out.

Old_Collector

With the availability of AI, not to mention the hundreds or more reports from this forum that EBay gets each month and ignores, perhaps it is time to hold EBay civilly and criminally liable for facilitating counterfeiting unless they are willing to actually make a good faith effort to minimize this problem. Once it hits EBay hard in the financials, they will find a way very quickly to make it far more uncommon than at present.

rec78

@Old_Collector said:
With the availability of AI, not to mention the hundreds or more reports from this forum that EBay gets each month and ignores, perhaps it is time to hold EBay civilly and criminally liable for facilitating counterfeiting unless they are willing to actually make a good faith effort to minimize this problem. Once it hits EBay hard in the financials, they will find a way very quickly to make it far more uncommon than at present.

eBay once banned coin sales for a time a few years ago. eBay cannot be held responsible for what some else sells. Anything can be faked. The seller must be fully responsible for what they sell. Policing everything will put them out of business very quickly.
A buyer or seller for that matter can file a lawsuit for even trivial amounts. The problem here is though, the cost and time of going to court can cost many thousands of dollars and suing someone in another country could take for ever and may not even be possible.
Caveat Emptor is the phrase I believe.

JBK

All of the counterfeits in the OP (great ones, BTW) are what were contemporary counterfeits meant to circulate.

It seems that most/all of the fakes that people here are upset about are obsolete coins meant to appeal to collectors.

If someone was to counterfeit current circulating coins or currency they would get the attention of the Secret Service.

jmlanzaf

@4Redisin said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@Sapyx said:
Of course the Secret Service cares about these counterfeits. There's just not much they can do to stop them.

As I've pointed out elsewhere... the actual production of counterfeits is all happening overseas, in countries like China where making fake US currency is perfectly legal. The people "committing crimes" are the ones who are going onto eBay/Alibaba/etc, buying them, and importing them.

The Secret Service can hunt down and prosecute any US-based importers and anyone on US soil who knowingly on-sells a fake as genuine, but the actual counterfeiters are all overseas. And the only way to stop them is to either (a) invade and annex China, or (b) spend trillions of dollars and hire a large proportion of the entire US population as Border Security agents to open and inspect every single shipping container, parcel and letter coming into the country.

Apart from that, "enforcement" of US law regarding the importation of counterfeits is essentially left in the hands of the marketplace platforms - relying on eBay etc to have good policies in place to stop the counterfeits. The US government could in theory ban the use of foreign sales platforms such as Temu and Alibaba, but that won't work for US-based platforms like eBay. And the only way eBay can stop the trade is to either (a) ban Chinese sellers from its platform entirely - which eBay won't do because they're addicted to the profits these Chinese sellers are giving them, or (b) hire thousands of actual human experts who examine every single listing posted on their platform before it's approved for launch.

The sellers of fakes on eBay are NOT all "Chinese sellers".

Who would have guessed? Thanks for pointing that out.

If you read the post I responded to, they were suggesting banning Chinese sellers.

Acarroll

@Old_Collector said:
With the availability of AI, not to mention the hundreds or more reports from this forum that EBay gets each month and ignores, perhaps it is time to hold EBay civilly and criminally liable for facilitating counterfeiting unless they are willing to actually make a good faith effort to minimize this problem. Once it hits EBay hard in the financials, they will find a way very quickly to make it far more uncommon than at present.

I'd love to see it, but I don't believe it'll ever happen.