Now, I'm not an expert on the Pryamids of Giza and why they were built, there s a few theories on that subject, but what I do know is, in the center of the Great Pyramid, the biggest of the Three, there is an empty sarcophagus, or coffin, that was the burial place, or the tomb, for the Pharaoh Khufu called the King's chamber. The tomb is been empty for a long time because of grave robbers, the ancient Egyptians believed in burying their Pharaoh's with treasures and riches, Gold, etc. that he could carry with him to the afterlife, if you look at everything that was found inside King Tut's tomb you'll see what I mean, Tut's tomb was never looted by robbers, they robbers couldn't find it, and it was discovered with all kinds of Gold and treasures. The Great Pyramid has one entrance on the outside, and once you get inside it was a complex labyrinth of narrow passages and you had to maneuver your way all through it, the Pharaoh's tomb was near the middle of the Pyramid. Here's a detailed diagram showing the inside and you can see how complex it is.
This is the entrance to the King's chamber in the Great Pyramid, the room containing the sarcophagus or coffin of Pharaoh Khufu, and you can see how small and narrow it is.
And this is Pharaoh Khufu's empty sarcophagus in the King's chamber. The Great Pyramid was built for Pharaoh Khufu and this is where he was buried inside the Pyramid.
It's just amazing how big the Great Pyramid is, 481 feet high in it's original state, 454 feet high today, it's a true wonder of the world, a marvel of engineering, it's insane that the ancient Egyptians could build something like this thousands of years ago without technology. The Great Pyramid of Giza is estimated to be constructed from approximately 2.3 million blocks of stone. These blocks consist mainly of limestone and granite, with an average weight of about 2.5 tons each. The calculations, that's one hell of a construction project.
This is an absolutely beautiful phenomenon that occurs in nature, Volcanic lightning is an electrical discharge, similar to that in a thunderstorm, but occurring within a volcanic plume during an eruption. It's caused by the static electricity generated when volcanic ash particles collide and fragment within the plume, rather than from ice crystals as in a typical thunderstorm. This phenomenon is sometimes referred to as a "dirty thunderstorm".
WWF Monday Night Raw, Oct. 12, 1998, "Stone Cold" Steve Austin loved making Mr. McMahon's life a living hell. On this night on Raw, the Rattlesnake drove into the arena with a cement truck and poured cement into the Chairman's prized corvette.
It's a fascinating mystery that has been a hot topic for debate in the billiards community for years, was Jackie Gleason's character in the 1961 film "The Hustler", Minnesota Fats, really based on Rudolf Wanderone, as Wanderone claimed? Walter Tevis always denied it. An off-duty Kentucky police officer made a startling discovery about the answer to that question.
Rudolf Wanderone
Myth vs Reality
When Minnesota Fats and Walter Tevis' imagination collided.
Story By R.A. Dyer
You can't tell the story of America's 1960s pool renaissance without first telling the story of Walter Tevis, the novelist. But you can't tell that story without telling the story of Rudolf Wanderone, the pool hustler.
Anyone who knows our sport's history knows the broad outlines — that Tevis wrote a popular novel, that the novel became a film, that a deceitful pool hustler named Rudolf Wanderone appropriated the novel's Minnesota Fats character for his own self-aggrandizement. In the process, however, the hustler Wanderone attracted heaps of attention to pool.
Minnesota Fats and Rudolf Wanderone, Walter Tevis and "The Hustler" — the history of 1960s pool jumbles them all up together, a funhouse mirror mishmash of reality and myth. But now, decades later, I present for your consideration two new questions. Was that decade's renaissance really based on a lie? And if so, whose lie?
Welcome back. For this installment I reexamine one of our sport's most important creation stories — the story of how Walter Tevis created Minnesota Fats and how Minnesota Fats, Pinocchio-like, became a real-life person. Was Fats real? Was he fiction? And what does it mean to be real? I also detail here for the first time ever an important literary discovery made by an off-duty cop in Kentucky. Rather than clearing up our paradox, this new discovery — maddeningly, frustratingly — muddies it even more.
But first, as always, a bit of context. I begin most columns by introducing interviewees and citing resources. This month I introduce just a single person, 37-year-old Eastern Kentucky University police officer Derek Kirunchyk; and I cite just one resource, the original manuscript of Tevis' 1959 novel, "The Hustler." Officer Kirunchyk discovered what appears to be an extremely significant detail in that manuscript after coming across it in the library basement at the university where he works. It is this newly discovered detail I discuss here. For this installment of Untold Stories I also must ask for a bit of the reader's indulgence. To explain the importance of what I reveal here I must provide a fair amount of background history about pool during the 1950s and 1960s. I likewise make assertions here and there about that history, about Rudolf Wanderone and about Walter Tevis — assertions that some readers may disagree with.
Derek Kirunchyk, a father of four, has competed three times in the U.S. Amateur Championships in Florida, competed at both APA and BCA events in Las Vegas, progressed into the fourth round of 9-ball at Derby City and even makes pool cues. He also works for the police department for Eastern Kentucky University, in Richmand. Given his background and his proximity to the university library, it is not so surprising that he would go snooping around looking for books.
Tevis maintained that his "Minnesota Fats" character was entirely fictitious.
"I work there and I went to school there and some time ago, a long time ago, I went to see if they had any books about billiards." Kirunchyk told me in May, during a long phone conversation. He said he wanted how-to books and biographies, but then a university library archivist told him about the Tevis manuscript located in the basement. "So I went down there and asked about it."
Keep in mind that this, Kirunchyk's initial research foray, occurred several years ago. That his university employer, a rural university historically known as a teacher's college, held the original manuscript came as a bewildering shock. Without a doubt The Hustler is the most important American novel ever written about pool. And it was right there, at his school. Tevis had donated the munuscript to EKU in 1968, during the height of his fame — but all this was news to Kirunchyk.
The archivist brought him two musty old manilla folders, each containing yellowing pages. Almost immediately he noticed little edits in pencil and pen. The manuscript pages also had pairs of punched circular holes in the left-hand margins, sure signs that Tevis had used a two-ringed binder to hold them together. And then Kirunchyk saw it. There, right above the author's name, right above Tevis's phone number (4-9823) and the book's title — there was another title. Tevis had written "The Hustler" in ink, but this other title he wrote using his manual typewriter. Tevis had scratched out the second title with a pen and, judging from his scrawl, it looked as if his ink failed him as he did so. But there it was: "The Brilliant Green."
Although Tevis had spoken publicly about this original title — for instance, there's a 1958 article in the Cincinnati Enquirer where he explains the meaning of "The Brilliant Green" — seeing these words for the first time gave Kirunchyk a little jolt, the same jolt that all researches experience when they rediscover forgotten things. This, however, wasn't the only detail that caught his eye. Kirunchyk saw other corrections, other little edits, but when he initially examined the manuscript several years ago, he wasn't quite sure what to make of them. "So I put the book back — that was five or 10 years ago — and I forgot all about it," he said.
Kirunchyk stumbled across Tevis' original manuscript for "The Hustler" while researching billiards. Photo by Sherry Lawson
Walter S. Tevis, the author, was born in 1928 in California and spent the first years of his life in San Francisco. In his bones, however, he always was a Kentuckian. Tevis moved to the Blue Grass State in 1939 after his family received a land grant there, and it was in Kentucky that he received most of his education. He served in World War II (in the Pacific theater), then returned to Kentucky to attend the Model Laboratory School in Richmond and later received both his bachelors and masters degrees in English Literature from the University of Kentucky in Lexington. Tevis also worked at a pool hall near the university campus, and he lived in Lexington when he was writing about pool.
In August 1955, about a year after receiving his master's degree, the then 27-year-old author published his first pool-related short story. Just two pages long, The Big Hustle focused on a high-stakes match between an old veteran, Ned Bales, and a kid named Hot Springs Babe. The story appeared in Collier's magazine. Two years later Tevis published a second pool-themed story, this one appearing in Playboy. Although it differed significantly from his more famous novel, Tevis also called this short story, "The Hustler." The actual novel with that name came next, in 1959, and here Tevis introduced his most well-known creations — the hot-headed Fast Eddie Felson and the intimidating Minnesota Fats. These characters became world famous after Paul Newman and Jackie Gleason portrayed them on the big screen two years later.
Here's an iconic scene from the novel — the moment when Fast Eddie and Minnesota Fats meet for the first time. This dialogue was replayed, line by line, by Gleason and Newman in the 20th Century Fox movie. The passage I reproduce here begins with Tevis's physical description of Minnesota Fats himself.
He was wearing a silk sport shirt, chartreuse, open at the neck and close on his side, soft-looking belly. His face was like dough, like the face of the full moon on a free calendar, puffed up like an Eskimo's, little ears close to his head, the hair shiny, curly, and carefully trimmed, the complexion clear, pinkish. His hands were clasped over the great belly, above a small, jeweled belt buckle, and there were brightly jeweled rings on four of his fingers. The nails were manicured and polished. About every ten seconds there was a sudden, convulsive motion of his head, forcing this chins down toward his left collar bone. This was a very sudden movement, and it brought an automatic grimace to that side of his mouth which seemed affected by the tic. Other than this there was no expression on the face. The man stared back at him. Then he said, "You shoot pretty good straights." His voice had no tone whatever. It was very deep. Eddie, somehow, did not feel like grinning. "Thanks," he said. He turned back to the table and finished up the rack of balls. Then when the cashier, the man with the black-rimmed glasses, was racking them up, Eddie turned back to the fat man and said, smiling this time, "You play straight pool, mister?" The man's chin jerked, abruptly. "Every once in a while," he said. "You know how it is." His voice sounded as though he were talking from the bottom of a well. Eddie continued chalking his cue. "You're Minnesota Fats, aren't you, mister?" The man said nothing, but his eyes seemed to flicker, as if he were amused, or trying to be amusing. I love this scene. It's hard to overstate how much I love it. For me it perfectly sums up the romance of pool, the potential drama imbedded in the very heart of it. And it is here that I will make the first of several admittedly arguable assertions about the character of Tevis's work. I believe his Minnesota Fats character and not his Fast Eddie that is the more engrossing of the two. Tevis certainly infused Fast Eddie with skill and it's hard not to root for him. But Fast Eddie is a chump. Fats, by contrast, is dangerous. And unlike Fast Eddie, Fats does not seem like a man accustomed to losing. It's Fats who steals the show.
Early in Tevis' novel, "Fast Eddie" references his foe as "New York Fats."
And here I'll make a second and far more controversial assertion. I believe it is Minnesota Fats who largely rescued our sport during the 1960s. Pool, as measured by its popularity with the public, had fallen into a terrible slump during the preceding decade. Table sales were down. Poolrooms were closing. But after the 1961 Hollywood release of "The Hustler," the sport came roaring back. Americans loved the movie and they loved Minnesota Fats in it. He was deceitful, mysterious and intimidating. He represented all the lowest, most terrible and disgraceful elements of our sport. And America couldn't get enough of him. With Minnesota Fats, the renaissance was born.
Rudolf Wanderone lived a life we now roughly divide into two parts. The first came before "The Hustler" and the second came afterwards. Briefly, this is how the first part went. Wanderone was the child of Swiss immigrants, he was born in 1913 in Manhattan and he lived there as a youth. Wanderone attended public school near his home around 148th Street, dropped out early and then made a name for himself as a professional billiardist of at least moderate ability. As a hustler he went by various nicknames, Double Smart Fats and Triple Smart Fats among them. But really he was always New York Fats. This was the name that other players bestowed upon him in the pool rooms around Times Square and Upper Manhattan, and this is the name he took with him on the road. Significantly, it also is the name he possessed in 1961 when 20th Century Fox released "The Hustler." Keep this in mind. This is important.
Now, if you met Rudolf Wanderone the year before "The Hustler's" release you might first be struck by his colorful way of speaking. It was like he had a Coney Island carnival barker affectation — sort of W.C. Fields meets Tony Soprano — but with all his soft vowels drawn out at the end of his sentences. At a glance you might also recognize why people called him New York Fats. The pool player was big and gluttonous and lazy, and in fact he often boasted of all these traits. You might also notice that Wanderone still played pool, even though by 1960 he was well past his prime.
But the pool gods had granted Wanderone greater gifts, and these you might not recognize at first, but you would recognize them soon enough. Among these were his innate sense of showmanship, his instinct for self-preservation and an ability to concoct the most beautiful of lies. These gifts — both the good ones and the bad — Wanderone employed in 1961 after the film's release. First was the matter of the Egyptian Drive-In, a movie theater near his adopted hometown in DuQuoin, Illinois. Witnesses said he picketed the theater during a showing of "The Hustler," claiming the film stole his identity. Next came Wanderone's statements to Sports Illustrated writer Tom Fox, statements that later showed up in the pool player's memoirs that Fox helped him write. "There was no question that the character called Minnesota Fats was fashioned after the one and only New York Fats, who just happened to be me," Wanderone said in the book. And when newspaper writers came knocking and magazine reporters too, he made the claims to them as well.
He made the claim, and he made the claim and he made the claim — and finally it stuck. I AM Minnesota Fats, he insisted. I AM Minnesota Fats. No matter that the New Yorker had probably never ever set foot in Minnesota; no matter that he always went by the moniker "New York Fats;" no matter that Tevis himself, in a forward to the 1976 edition to his book, explicitly denied the connection. "That is ridiculous," the writer said. "I made up Minnesota Fats — name and all as surely as Disney made up Donald Duck."
But none of this mattered. With the command of a born showman, the hustler always known to the pool world as New York Fats had, through this beautiful lie, transformed himself into real but very-much-bigger-than-life Minnesota Fats.
And thus the second part of Rudolf Wanderone's life began.
"And then a friend of mine shared a video with me, a video of Minnesota Fats arguing with Willie Mosconi — and I remembered that manuscript down there in the library basement. The original copy. I remembered it down there, and so I made a point to go back and look at it again."
We take up the story again with Kirunchyk, the Kentucky police officer. Recall that Kirunchyk had examined the manuscript once before, years previously. But in early 2019 the idea came to Kirunchyk that he should go look at it again. It was this YouTube video that gave him this idea. In it, the supposed "real life" Minnesota Fats — that is, Wanderone — was arguing with Willie Mosconi, America's greatest-ever pool player. The argument was during a famous televised pool match in 1978 in New York City.
And so now we arrive at a crucial bit of context. Wanderone and Mosconi arguing. Arguing. One specific detail of that 1978 argument is important for this story, although in most ways the argument that year was no different from the argument that Wanderone and Mosconi always had been having, the same argument that began with the Hollywood release of "The Hustler" and the same argument they kept having well into their retirement. Superficially the arguments seemed to take different forms and they were over different questions — who won what, for instance, or who was the better player. But behind all the arguments, the 1978 argument included, there was just a single question and that question was simply this: who was Rudolf Wanderone really?
Author Walter Tevis disputed, had always disputed, that Wanderone was the real-life model for his Minnesota Fats character. "That is ridiculous," he wrote in 1979. And this view of things — that Wanderone was a charlatan and a fraud and that he had stolen his fame — this became the official view of things. It was the view held by most respectable billiard players; it was the more or less official view of official pooldom; it was the view championed by Willie Mosconi, in 1979, as he argued with Rudolf Wanderone on national TV.
When Kirunchyk first viewed the Tevis manuscript years earlier he was aware of this controversy, but not all the details of it. He knew, for instance, that there was a man who went around calling himself Minnesota Fats and that pool scholars believed he had assumed that persona to profit from the movie's success. But Kirunchyk did not know, back years ago when he first examined the manuscript, that Wanderone had been going around calling himself New York Fats prior to the book's release. Kirunchyk only became aware of this detail later, as he watched the argument between Mosconi and Wanderone on the YouTube video. In it, Wanderone makes this assertion: "The real Minnesota Fats is none other than New York Fats — if they weren't describing me in "The Hustler," why didn't they make a movie about Willie?" And then it clicked. Something about that assertion jogged Kirunchyk's memory about a detail in the manuscript, about a detail he saw earlier but didn't then understand.
"So I went back to take a second look," Kirunchyk told me. "I skimmed each page. I was very careful, gently turning the pages one by one, so as not to damage the fragile paper, and then I noticed it . ..."
And here it comes ...
"I noticed that he has written 'Minnesota Fats'. ... but at the beginning (Tevis) started out by using the name 'New York Fats'. He has actually typed 'New York Fats'. But then he goes back and marked out 'New York' — he writes a line through that — and writes 'Minnesota' over it."
And son of a bitch, it's true. New York Fats. New York Fats. Kirunchyk is absolutely right. On page 78, Tevis has scratched out "New York" and written in its place, in his own hand, the word "Minnesota." In fact, Tevis does that twice on this page. Elsewhere, on pages 36, 39, 48 and 100 Tevis also references "New York Fats", not "Minnesota Fats". "And in a few spots he forgets to mark it out, and you can see it. I noticed it — I noticed the title, that it had a different title, and after that I noticed where 'New York Fats' had been scratched out, and 'Minnesota Fats' written in. ... He actually typed 'New York Fats', and then he (Tevis) hand draws a line through it, and writes 'Minnesota' over it. The first time I noticed it, he scratched it out in pencil. And then he did it in pen later on.
"I enjoy the history of billiards — I'm a real big enthusiast — and when I made the connection, I realized this was part of a 60-year-old mystery."
What does all this mean? Nothing less than this: that Wanderone, perhaps, was telling the truth. Rather than having stolen his name from Tevis, the reality may have been completely the other way around. For nearly 60 years, ever since the release of "The Hustler," those who follow the sport widely assumed that Wanderone had lied about his own provenance. Because of Kirunchyk's discovery, we must now reassess this view of things.
Tevis' original manuscript for "The Hustler" includes a page in which the author changes the character's nickname from "New York" to "Minnesota."
I believe it is likely that Tevis borrowed more from Wanderone than he cared to admit. I think the author probably spied New York Fats during one of his frequent pool trips and then incorporated elements of this New York Fats into his book, but changed his name to Minnesota Fats. And if you read "The Hustler" closely, if you consider the small details, you will find supporting evidence for this view. The sports shirt-wearing Minnesota Fats of the novel is in many respects more Rudolf Wanderone-like than the dark-suited Jackie Gleason ever was.
This is important. I have always contended that Wanderone's hustle was the greatest in the history of our sport. Through it he managed to parlay a work of fiction into personal fame, and in that process he defined both himself as a person but also pool. And if Wanderone never staked his claim, if he never abandoned his own nickname in favor of Minnesota Fats, the 1960s pool craze would have subsided much more quickly than it did.
But that doesn't belie the important fact that, at the heart of our sport's colorful 1960s renaissance, there resides a story. Quite literally. Peel away enough onion layers and what you're left with is a novel by Walter Tevis and a character named Minnesota Fats. Myth and true life get jumbled up all together in them. The literal truth of their stories don't make them any more less significant. It's their stories themselves. And this, I believe, is why Minnesota Fats still lives with us.
Eddie kept smiling, but he felt his fingertips quivering and put his hand in his pocket, holding the cue stick with the other. "They say Minnesota Fats is the best the country, out where I come from," he said.
"Is that a fact?" The man's face jerked again.
"That's right," Eddie said. "Out where I come from they say Minnesota Fats shoot the eyes right off them balls."
This is my favorite scene from The Hustler, where Eddie risks his life and stands up to the morally corrupt gangster Bert at the end of the film, tells him like it is. And I love how they show Minnesota Fats face, he knows what Eddie's saying is true, that Bert is a soulless monster. It's one of the best scenes in movie history.
It's a fascinating way of life, being a pool player, it's an extremely difficult game to master, I admire the hell out of anyone with the mental concentration and skill to master the game, pool is ridiculously complex. This is a highly recommended book, the author takes readers on a fascinating tour of smoky bars and pool halls across the nation from the Depression era through the 1950s in search of the legendary figures from America's "age of pool." The author is the same guy that wrote the above article on Rudolf Wanderone aka Minnesota Fats, R.A. Dyer, the man knows his pool. I love the photo of Jersey Red on the cover, the intensity in his eyes.
Thr Color of Money was a great movie as well, of course it was the sequel to The Hustler, it shows Fast Eddie Felson as an older man, he has long since given up being a pool shark and has become a liquor salesman and bar owner. Vincent, a highly skilled young cocky pool shark, walks into Eddie's bar one night and Eddie takes notice and sees a lot of Vincent in his former self, and he decides to take Vincent under his wing and teach him the pool hustler way of life. After a while, Eddie starts to get the itch again, and decides to get back into pool hustling himself. This is my favorite scene in The Color of Money, when Eddie gets hustled by Amos, Forest Whitaker was just brilliant in this role, he really captures the snakelike ways of a pool hustler.
Interesting fact about The Iron Sheik, he was offered $100,000 by AWA promoter Verne Gagne to break Hulk Hogan's leg during a match at Madison Square Garden in 1984, but he refused, choosing instead to lose the match and the WWF title to Hogan. This event marked the beginning of "Hulkamania", which really sent professional wrestling into the stratosphere. The crazy thing is, if The Iron Sheik wanted to break Hogan's leg, he would have had no trouble doing so, the Sheik was built like a damn tree trunk and had a background in Greco Roman wrestling, he wasn't a guy you wanted to mess with.
Bruce Prichard on Infamous Story of Verne Gagne Offering The Iron Sheik Money to Break Hulk Hogan’s Leg, What Sheik Told Vince McMahon About It
– On the latest Something to Wrestle, Bruce Prichard discussed the famous story of AWA promoter Verne Gagne offering The Iron Sheik $100,000 to break the leg of Hulk Hogan and leave WWF with the World Heavyweight title back in January 1984. This was the match where Hogan beat Sheik at Madison Square Garden to win the title and saw the birth of Hulkamania.
Bruce Prichard on truth of the alleged story: “Well, I think the story made the rounds, big time, at that time. So, it was one of those where there was smoke, there was probably fire. I’ve heard the story directly from the Sheik. And Sheik telling that he was going in and everyone knew that Hulk was gonna be the guy. Verne was pissed off that Hulk had left the AWA and gone to the evil New York Vince McMahon motherf***er. So, Vergne was upset, and the — I don’t know if it actually happened or not — but legend has it that Sheik was offered a lot of money humiliate and break Hulk’s leg because if he wanted to break Hulk’s leg, there wasn’t much Hulk was going to be able to do about it. And I think Hulk would tell you that as well, but Sheik went to Vince beforehand and said, ‘Mister Vince, you so good to the Sheik. You take care make champion. I beat jabroni Bob Backlund. I no break his neck. I no break Hulk Hogan’s leg. I put jabroni over for love of you, and you take care of Sheiky.’ And that’s how the story goes.”
Prichard on what Vince McMahon told him about what The Iron Sheik told him before the match: “And Vince has even told me the story of Sheik coming to him before, and Vince wondering, ‘Is Sheik telling me this now to hold me up? And say, OK. I’ll put him over, but I need X amount of money.’ And Sheik didn’t do that. Sheik just told him, ‘I just want you to know before I go in the ring, yes, I was approached. And yes, I was offered money, but I’m not gonna do it. I’m gonna go out and do my job, and I’m gonna put Hogan over.’ [Prichard imitates Iron Sheik] ‘That jabroni. F*** him.'”
Prichard on Iron Sheik’s professionalism: “There’s a sense of professionalism, and in the old days, the old timers that were tough and knew their way around, I guess that maybe they could get away with it to a point. But there’s always somebody else tougher on the other side. Somewhere down the line, you’re gonna get your ass kicked, and you’re gonna get taken out one way or another. And it was just better to be professional. If you didn’t want to do it, then figure something else out, but that wasn’t the case. And Sheik just wanted to clear the air to let everyone know that he was not there to hurt Hulk, and he was there to do business and make this as big as he possibly could.”
Prichard on having Hogan beat The Iron Sheik instead of Bob Backlund: “It’s a bigger win. It’s a bigger win for Hulk Hogan and all American and American Made, Hulkamania, and what have you to beat the evil Iron Sheik from Iran. So, that’s why it was done, so that it would be a heel victory. And [the idea of] Hulk beating Bob Backlund, Bob was still very popular, and there was going to be a big chunk of the audience that’s gonna say, ‘F*** Hulk Hogan then.'”
“The whole reason for bringing him and doing the title switch the way that they did was to get Hulk Hogan over. And that’s what they did. So, they used Iron Sheik, and you have the credibility of Iron Sheik being amateur Olympian, Pan American champion, all this other s*** that the Sheik has done, real credentials, now he has credentials of being a former WWE champion. And to that audience, that was a huge deal, and you made two stars in that process. You got your brand-new babyface over in Hulk, and you created a formidable opponent and foreign terror in The Iron Sheik.”
This is so cool, these are Ancient Roman coins that were in circulation during the time of the Roman empire depicting the Roman Colosseum, fascinating.
There was a thread a while back where Travis Kelce was complaining about having to play in the heat, if he thinks that's bad, he should try making a living at sea, these people have to deal with terrifying storms that produce monster waves, these waves come at you non-stop. The movie "The Perfect Storm" is a true story you know.
This is video from an oil tanker in the North Atlantic, the tanker got caught in a bad storm that lasted for hours, just look at the size of the waves hitting the tanker, I can't imagine how frightening it must have been.
You have to have some serious nerves to be fisherman at sea, these 30-40 foot rogue waves come out of nowhere and they can capsize a boat rather easily, close shave on this one. You can see how terrifying it is, one of the hardest jobs on Earth.
@stevek said:
Whatever happened to your boy Colin Kaepernick? He's only 37 years old.
Rodgers is 41 years old and must still have something left. The Steelers just paid him.
Nobody is paying Kaepernick to play football.
Not that I could care less about either one of them. LOL
Colin Kaepernick is no fun, Aaron Rodgers is the definition of entertainment. Hey, speaking of Aaron Rodgers, it's time for an Aaron Rodgers joke!
Yes, but that joke could have also been applied to Kaepernick over five years ago.
At least Rodgers shows up for a scheduled workout. Kaepernick gets a multi-team workout scheduled at his request, repeat at his request, and then doesn't show up. 😆
@stevek said:
Whatever happened to your boy Colin Kaepernick? He's only 37 years old.
Rodgers is 41 years old and must still have something left. The Steelers just paid him.
Nobody is paying Kaepernick to play football.
Not that I could care less about either one of them. LOL
Colin Kaepernick is no fun, Aaron Rodgers is the definition of entertainment. Hey, speaking of Aaron Rodgers, it's time for an Aaron Rodgers joke!
Yes, but that joke could have also been applied to Kaepernick over five years ago.
At least Rodgers shows up for a scheduled workout. Kaepernick gets a multi-team workout scheduled at his request, repeat at his request, and then doesn't show up. 😆
I know you think my Aaron Rodgers jokes are political related, you think that I'm out to get Aaron Rodgers because of his political views. I'm not, I've been having fun with Rodgers jokes for years on this forum. For what it's worth, I don't really care for Kaepernick, I don't like some comments he made about his own parents a while back. Everything isn't political with me Steve, I don't even want to talk about politics anymore, politics are a chitshow, politicians are phony, all of them, they'll say whatever they think people want to hear to get elected and keep their power. I've let go of politics and moved on.
For what it's worth, my view on life is this. Whatever situation life throws at you, do the right thing. Look at the situation, study it, and figure out what the right thing to do is. It's not always easy to determine what the right thing to do is, life can be complex and throw curves at you, but just try to do the right thing.
@Grady Seasons said:
And yes, I changed my name to Grady Seasons, that is what I wish to be called from here on.
As soon as I saw the name, I knew it was a character from the movie The Color of Money which of course is a sequel to The Hustler, one of my favorite movies.
I was pretty good at the game. I once placed third in a large tournament at Penn State. Still can't believe I lost. I played well, the mudder just outplayed me. LOL
@stevek said:
Whatever happened to your boy Colin Kaepernick? He's only 37 years old.
Rodgers is 41 years old and must still have something left. The Steelers just paid him.
Nobody is paying Kaepernick to play football.
Not that I could care less about either one of them. LOL
Colin Kaepernick is no fun, Aaron Rodgers is the definition of entertainment. Hey, speaking of Aaron Rodgers, it's time for an Aaron Rodgers joke!
Yes, but that joke could have also been applied to Kaepernick over five years ago.
At least Rodgers shows up for a scheduled workout. Kaepernick gets a multi-team workout scheduled at his request, repeat at his request, and then doesn't show up. 😆
I know you think my Aaron Rodgers jokes are political related, you think that I'm out to get Aaron Rodgers because of his political views. I'm not, I've been having fun with Rodgers jokes for years on this forum. For what it's worth, I don't really care for Kaepernick, I don't like some comments he made about his own parents a while back. Everything isn't political with me Steve, I don't even want to talk about politics anymore, politics are a chitshow, politicians are phony, all of them, they'll say whatever they think people want to hear to get elected and keep their power. I've let go of politics and moved on.
I actually enjoy talking politics, always have. Just not here because ya wind up in CU jail or banished to a far away land somewhere in cyber space. LOL
Actually it's a good business model that CU has. I mean political chat forums and such are a dime a dozen out there. Countless numbers of them. Whereby a coin and card collecting, high quality forum such as this is very difficult to find. Best not to pollute it with political rants, etc.
Of course Sports Talk, including rants, is allowed because for most card collectors, it's an integral part of the fun of card collecting. 😊
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The Great Pyramid as seen from the city of Giza.
Now, I'm not an expert on the Pryamids of Giza and why they were built, there s a few theories on that subject, but what I do know is, in the center of the Great Pyramid, the biggest of the Three, there is an empty sarcophagus, or coffin, that was the burial place, or the tomb, for the Pharaoh Khufu called the King's chamber. The tomb is been empty for a long time because of grave robbers, the ancient Egyptians believed in burying their Pharaoh's with treasures and riches, Gold, etc. that he could carry with him to the afterlife, if you look at everything that was found inside King Tut's tomb you'll see what I mean, Tut's tomb was never looted by robbers, they robbers couldn't find it, and it was discovered with all kinds of Gold and treasures. The Great Pyramid has one entrance on the outside, and once you get inside it was a complex labyrinth of narrow passages and you had to maneuver your way all through it, the Pharaoh's tomb was near the middle of the Pyramid. Here's a detailed diagram showing the inside and you can see how complex it is.
This is only entrance of the Great Pyramid, the only way to get inside.
View from further back.
View from up close.
View from the side.
And this is what it's like once you get inside the Great Pyramid, just a labyrinth of narrow passages.
This is the entrance to the King's chamber in the Great Pyramid, the room containing the sarcophagus or coffin of Pharaoh Khufu, and you can see how small and narrow it is.
And this is Pharaoh Khufu's empty sarcophagus in the King's chamber. The Great Pyramid was built for Pharaoh Khufu and this is where he was buried inside the Pyramid.
It's just amazing how big the Great Pyramid is, 481 feet high in it's original state, 454 feet high today, it's a true wonder of the world, a marvel of engineering, it's insane that the ancient Egyptians could build something like this thousands of years ago without technology. The Great Pyramid of Giza is estimated to be constructed from approximately 2.3 million blocks of stone. These blocks consist mainly of limestone and granite, with an average weight of about 2.5 tons each. The calculations, that's one hell of a construction project.
Beautiful shot of the Great Pyramid with the Sphinx sitting in front of it.
Music break.
This is an absolutely beautiful phenomenon that occurs in nature, Volcanic lightning is an electrical discharge, similar to that in a thunderstorm, but occurring within a volcanic plume during an eruption. It's caused by the static electricity generated when volcanic ash particles collide and fragment within the plume, rather than from ice crystals as in a typical thunderstorm. This phenomenon is sometimes referred to as a "dirty thunderstorm".
Volcanic lightning is a sight to behold.
WWF Monday Night Raw, Oct. 12, 1998, "Stone Cold" Steve Austin loved making Mr. McMahon's life a living hell. On this night on Raw, the Rattlesnake drove into the arena with a cement truck and poured cement into the Chairman's prized corvette.
It's a fascinating mystery that has been a hot topic for debate in the billiards community for years, was Jackie Gleason's character in the 1961 film "The Hustler", Minnesota Fats, really based on Rudolf Wanderone, as Wanderone claimed? Walter Tevis always denied it. An off-duty Kentucky police officer made a startling discovery about the answer to that question.
Rudolf Wanderone
Myth vs Reality
When Minnesota Fats and Walter Tevis' imagination collided.
Story By R.A. Dyer
You can't tell the story of America's 1960s pool renaissance without first telling the story of Walter Tevis, the novelist. But you can't tell that story without telling the story of Rudolf Wanderone, the pool hustler.
Anyone who knows our sport's history knows the broad outlines — that Tevis wrote a popular novel, that the novel became a film, that a deceitful pool hustler named Rudolf Wanderone appropriated the novel's Minnesota Fats character for his own self-aggrandizement. In the process, however, the hustler Wanderone attracted heaps of attention to pool.
Minnesota Fats and Rudolf Wanderone, Walter Tevis and "The Hustler" — the history of 1960s pool jumbles them all up together, a funhouse mirror mishmash of reality and myth. But now, decades later, I present for your consideration two new questions. Was that decade's renaissance really based on a lie? And if so, whose lie?
Welcome back. For this installment I reexamine one of our sport's most important creation stories — the story of how Walter Tevis created Minnesota Fats and how Minnesota Fats, Pinocchio-like, became a real-life person. Was Fats real? Was he fiction? And what does it mean to be real? I also detail here for the first time ever an important literary discovery made by an off-duty cop in Kentucky. Rather than clearing up our paradox, this new discovery — maddeningly, frustratingly — muddies it even more.
But first, as always, a bit of context. I begin most columns by introducing interviewees and citing resources. This month I introduce just a single person, 37-year-old Eastern Kentucky University police officer Derek Kirunchyk; and I cite just one resource, the original manuscript of Tevis' 1959 novel, "The Hustler." Officer Kirunchyk discovered what appears to be an extremely significant detail in that manuscript after coming across it in the library basement at the university where he works. It is this newly discovered detail I discuss here. For this installment of Untold Stories I also must ask for a bit of the reader's indulgence. To explain the importance of what I reveal here I must provide a fair amount of background history about pool during the 1950s and 1960s. I likewise make assertions here and there about that history, about Rudolf Wanderone and about Walter Tevis — assertions that some readers may disagree with.
Derek Kirunchyk, a father of four, has competed three times in the U.S. Amateur Championships in Florida, competed at both APA and BCA events in Las Vegas, progressed into the fourth round of 9-ball at Derby City and even makes pool cues. He also works for the police department for Eastern Kentucky University, in Richmand. Given his background and his proximity to the university library, it is not so surprising that he would go snooping around looking for books.
Tevis maintained that his "Minnesota Fats" character was entirely fictitious.
"I work there and I went to school there and some time ago, a long time ago, I went to see if they had any books about billiards." Kirunchyk told me in May, during a long phone conversation. He said he wanted how-to books and biographies, but then a university library archivist told him about the Tevis manuscript located in the basement. "So I went down there and asked about it."
Keep in mind that this, Kirunchyk's initial research foray, occurred several years ago. That his university employer, a rural university historically known as a teacher's college, held the original manuscript came as a bewildering shock. Without a doubt The Hustler is the most important American novel ever written about pool. And it was right there, at his school. Tevis had donated the munuscript to EKU in 1968, during the height of his fame — but all this was news to Kirunchyk.
The archivist brought him two musty old manilla folders, each containing yellowing pages. Almost immediately he noticed little edits in pencil and pen. The manuscript pages also had pairs of punched circular holes in the left-hand margins, sure signs that Tevis had used a two-ringed binder to hold them together. And then Kirunchyk saw it. There, right above the author's name, right above Tevis's phone number (4-9823) and the book's title — there was another title. Tevis had written "The Hustler" in ink, but this other title he wrote using his manual typewriter. Tevis had scratched out the second title with a pen and, judging from his scrawl, it looked as if his ink failed him as he did so. But there it was: "The Brilliant Green."
Although Tevis had spoken publicly about this original title — for instance, there's a 1958 article in the Cincinnati Enquirer where he explains the meaning of "The Brilliant Green" — seeing these words for the first time gave Kirunchyk a little jolt, the same jolt that all researches experience when they rediscover forgotten things. This, however, wasn't the only detail that caught his eye. Kirunchyk saw other corrections, other little edits, but when he initially examined the manuscript several years ago, he wasn't quite sure what to make of them. "So I put the book back — that was five or 10 years ago — and I forgot all about it," he said.
Kirunchyk stumbled across Tevis' original manuscript for "The Hustler" while researching billiards. Photo by Sherry Lawson
Walter S. Tevis, the author, was born in 1928 in California and spent the first years of his life in San Francisco. In his bones, however, he always was a Kentuckian. Tevis moved to the Blue Grass State in 1939 after his family received a land grant there, and it was in Kentucky that he received most of his education. He served in World War II (in the Pacific theater), then returned to Kentucky to attend the Model Laboratory School in Richmond and later received both his bachelors and masters degrees in English Literature from the University of Kentucky in Lexington. Tevis also worked at a pool hall near the university campus, and he lived in Lexington when he was writing about pool.
In August 1955, about a year after receiving his master's degree, the then 27-year-old author published his first pool-related short story. Just two pages long, The Big Hustle focused on a high-stakes match between an old veteran, Ned Bales, and a kid named Hot Springs Babe. The story appeared in Collier's magazine. Two years later Tevis published a second pool-themed story, this one appearing in Playboy. Although it differed significantly from his more famous novel, Tevis also called this short story, "The Hustler." The actual novel with that name came next, in 1959, and here Tevis introduced his most well-known creations — the hot-headed Fast Eddie Felson and the intimidating Minnesota Fats. These characters became world famous after Paul Newman and Jackie Gleason portrayed them on the big screen two years later.
Here's an iconic scene from the novel — the moment when Fast Eddie and Minnesota Fats meet for the first time. This dialogue was replayed, line by line, by Gleason and Newman in the 20th Century Fox movie. The passage I reproduce here begins with Tevis's physical description of Minnesota Fats himself.
He was wearing a silk sport shirt, chartreuse, open at the neck and close on his side, soft-looking belly. His face was like dough, like the face of the full moon on a free calendar, puffed up like an Eskimo's, little ears close to his head, the hair shiny, curly, and carefully trimmed, the complexion clear, pinkish. His hands were clasped over the great belly, above a small, jeweled belt buckle, and there were brightly jeweled rings on four of his fingers. The nails were manicured and polished. About every ten seconds there was a sudden, convulsive motion of his head, forcing this chins down toward his left collar bone. This was a very sudden movement, and it brought an automatic grimace to that side of his mouth which seemed affected by the tic. Other than this there was no expression on the face. The man stared back at him. Then he said, "You shoot pretty good straights." His voice had no tone whatever. It was very deep. Eddie, somehow, did not feel like grinning. "Thanks," he said. He turned back to the table and finished up the rack of balls. Then when the cashier, the man with the black-rimmed glasses, was racking them up, Eddie turned back to the fat man and said, smiling this time, "You play straight pool, mister?" The man's chin jerked, abruptly. "Every once in a while," he said. "You know how it is." His voice sounded as though he were talking from the bottom of a well. Eddie continued chalking his cue. "You're Minnesota Fats, aren't you, mister?" The man said nothing, but his eyes seemed to flicker, as if he were amused, or trying to be amusing. I love this scene. It's hard to overstate how much I love it. For me it perfectly sums up the romance of pool, the potential drama imbedded in the very heart of it. And it is here that I will make the first of several admittedly arguable assertions about the character of Tevis's work. I believe his Minnesota Fats character and not his Fast Eddie that is the more engrossing of the two. Tevis certainly infused Fast Eddie with skill and it's hard not to root for him. But Fast Eddie is a chump. Fats, by contrast, is dangerous. And unlike Fast Eddie, Fats does not seem like a man accustomed to losing. It's Fats who steals the show.
Early in Tevis' novel, "Fast Eddie" references his foe as "New York Fats."
And here I'll make a second and far more controversial assertion. I believe it is Minnesota Fats who largely rescued our sport during the 1960s. Pool, as measured by its popularity with the public, had fallen into a terrible slump during the preceding decade. Table sales were down. Poolrooms were closing. But after the 1961 Hollywood release of "The Hustler," the sport came roaring back. Americans loved the movie and they loved Minnesota Fats in it. He was deceitful, mysterious and intimidating. He represented all the lowest, most terrible and disgraceful elements of our sport. And America couldn't get enough of him. With Minnesota Fats, the renaissance was born.
Rudolf Wanderone lived a life we now roughly divide into two parts. The first came before "The Hustler" and the second came afterwards. Briefly, this is how the first part went. Wanderone was the child of Swiss immigrants, he was born in 1913 in Manhattan and he lived there as a youth. Wanderone attended public school near his home around 148th Street, dropped out early and then made a name for himself as a professional billiardist of at least moderate ability. As a hustler he went by various nicknames, Double Smart Fats and Triple Smart Fats among them. But really he was always New York Fats. This was the name that other players bestowed upon him in the pool rooms around Times Square and Upper Manhattan, and this is the name he took with him on the road. Significantly, it also is the name he possessed in 1961 when 20th Century Fox released "The Hustler." Keep this in mind. This is important.
Now, if you met Rudolf Wanderone the year before "The Hustler's" release you might first be struck by his colorful way of speaking. It was like he had a Coney Island carnival barker affectation — sort of W.C. Fields meets Tony Soprano — but with all his soft vowels drawn out at the end of his sentences. At a glance you might also recognize why people called him New York Fats. The pool player was big and gluttonous and lazy, and in fact he often boasted of all these traits. You might also notice that Wanderone still played pool, even though by 1960 he was well past his prime.
But the pool gods had granted Wanderone greater gifts, and these you might not recognize at first, but you would recognize them soon enough. Among these were his innate sense of showmanship, his instinct for self-preservation and an ability to concoct the most beautiful of lies. These gifts — both the good ones and the bad — Wanderone employed in 1961 after the film's release. First was the matter of the Egyptian Drive-In, a movie theater near his adopted hometown in DuQuoin, Illinois. Witnesses said he picketed the theater during a showing of "The Hustler," claiming the film stole his identity. Next came Wanderone's statements to Sports Illustrated writer Tom Fox, statements that later showed up in the pool player's memoirs that Fox helped him write. "There was no question that the character called Minnesota Fats was fashioned after the one and only New York Fats, who just happened to be me," Wanderone said in the book. And when newspaper writers came knocking and magazine reporters too, he made the claims to them as well.
He made the claim, and he made the claim and he made the claim — and finally it stuck. I AM Minnesota Fats, he insisted. I AM Minnesota Fats. No matter that the New Yorker had probably never ever set foot in Minnesota; no matter that he always went by the moniker "New York Fats;" no matter that Tevis himself, in a forward to the 1976 edition to his book, explicitly denied the connection. "That is ridiculous," the writer said. "I made up Minnesota Fats — name and all as surely as Disney made up Donald Duck."
But none of this mattered. With the command of a born showman, the hustler always known to the pool world as New York Fats had, through this beautiful lie, transformed himself into real but very-much-bigger-than-life Minnesota Fats.
And thus the second part of Rudolf Wanderone's life began.
"And then a friend of mine shared a video with me, a video of Minnesota Fats arguing with Willie Mosconi — and I remembered that manuscript down there in the library basement. The original copy. I remembered it down there, and so I made a point to go back and look at it again."
We take up the story again with Kirunchyk, the Kentucky police officer. Recall that Kirunchyk had examined the manuscript once before, years previously. But in early 2019 the idea came to Kirunchyk that he should go look at it again. It was this YouTube video that gave him this idea. In it, the supposed "real life" Minnesota Fats — that is, Wanderone — was arguing with Willie Mosconi, America's greatest-ever pool player. The argument was during a famous televised pool match in 1978 in New York City.
And so now we arrive at a crucial bit of context. Wanderone and Mosconi arguing. Arguing. One specific detail of that 1978 argument is important for this story, although in most ways the argument that year was no different from the argument that Wanderone and Mosconi always had been having, the same argument that began with the Hollywood release of "The Hustler" and the same argument they kept having well into their retirement. Superficially the arguments seemed to take different forms and they were over different questions — who won what, for instance, or who was the better player. But behind all the arguments, the 1978 argument included, there was just a single question and that question was simply this: who was Rudolf Wanderone really?
Author Walter Tevis disputed, had always disputed, that Wanderone was the real-life model for his Minnesota Fats character. "That is ridiculous," he wrote in 1979. And this view of things — that Wanderone was a charlatan and a fraud and that he had stolen his fame — this became the official view of things. It was the view held by most respectable billiard players; it was the more or less official view of official pooldom; it was the view championed by Willie Mosconi, in 1979, as he argued with Rudolf Wanderone on national TV.
When Kirunchyk first viewed the Tevis manuscript years earlier he was aware of this controversy, but not all the details of it. He knew, for instance, that there was a man who went around calling himself Minnesota Fats and that pool scholars believed he had assumed that persona to profit from the movie's success. But Kirunchyk did not know, back years ago when he first examined the manuscript, that Wanderone had been going around calling himself New York Fats prior to the book's release. Kirunchyk only became aware of this detail later, as he watched the argument between Mosconi and Wanderone on the YouTube video. In it, Wanderone makes this assertion: "The real Minnesota Fats is none other than New York Fats — if they weren't describing me in "The Hustler," why didn't they make a movie about Willie?" And then it clicked. Something about that assertion jogged Kirunchyk's memory about a detail in the manuscript, about a detail he saw earlier but didn't then understand.
"So I went back to take a second look," Kirunchyk told me. "I skimmed each page. I was very careful, gently turning the pages one by one, so as not to damage the fragile paper, and then I noticed it . ..."
And here it comes ...
"I noticed that he has written 'Minnesota Fats'. ... but at the beginning (Tevis) started out by using the name 'New York Fats'. He has actually typed 'New York Fats'. But then he goes back and marked out 'New York' — he writes a line through that — and writes 'Minnesota' over it."
And son of a bitch, it's true. New York Fats. New York Fats. Kirunchyk is absolutely right. On page 78, Tevis has scratched out "New York" and written in its place, in his own hand, the word "Minnesota." In fact, Tevis does that twice on this page. Elsewhere, on pages 36, 39, 48 and 100 Tevis also references "New York Fats", not "Minnesota Fats". "And in a few spots he forgets to mark it out, and you can see it. I noticed it — I noticed the title, that it had a different title, and after that I noticed where 'New York Fats' had been scratched out, and 'Minnesota Fats' written in. ... He actually typed 'New York Fats', and then he (Tevis) hand draws a line through it, and writes 'Minnesota' over it. The first time I noticed it, he scratched it out in pencil. And then he did it in pen later on.
"I enjoy the history of billiards — I'm a real big enthusiast — and when I made the connection, I realized this was part of a 60-year-old mystery."
What does all this mean? Nothing less than this: that Wanderone, perhaps, was telling the truth. Rather than having stolen his name from Tevis, the reality may have been completely the other way around. For nearly 60 years, ever since the release of "The Hustler," those who follow the sport widely assumed that Wanderone had lied about his own provenance. Because of Kirunchyk's discovery, we must now reassess this view of things.
Tevis' original manuscript for "The Hustler" includes a page in which the author changes the character's nickname from "New York" to "Minnesota."
I believe it is likely that Tevis borrowed more from Wanderone than he cared to admit. I think the author probably spied New York Fats during one of his frequent pool trips and then incorporated elements of this New York Fats into his book, but changed his name to Minnesota Fats. And if you read "The Hustler" closely, if you consider the small details, you will find supporting evidence for this view. The sports shirt-wearing Minnesota Fats of the novel is in many respects more Rudolf Wanderone-like than the dark-suited Jackie Gleason ever was.
This is important. I have always contended that Wanderone's hustle was the greatest in the history of our sport. Through it he managed to parlay a work of fiction into personal fame, and in that process he defined both himself as a person but also pool. And if Wanderone never staked his claim, if he never abandoned his own nickname in favor of Minnesota Fats, the 1960s pool craze would have subsided much more quickly than it did.
But that doesn't belie the important fact that, at the heart of our sport's colorful 1960s renaissance, there resides a story. Quite literally. Peel away enough onion layers and what you're left with is a novel by Walter Tevis and a character named Minnesota Fats. Myth and true life get jumbled up all together in them. The literal truth of their stories don't make them any more less significant. It's their stories themselves. And this, I believe, is why Minnesota Fats still lives with us.
Eddie kept smiling, but he felt his fingertips quivering and put his hand in his pocket, holding the cue stick with the other. "They say Minnesota Fats is the best the country, out where I come from," he said.
"Is that a fact?" The man's face jerked again.
"That's right," Eddie said. "Out where I come from they say Minnesota Fats shoot the eyes right off them balls."
My favorite line in The Hustler, "You left enough." My God that is pure Gold.
This is my favorite scene from The Hustler, where Eddie risks his life and stands up to the morally corrupt gangster Bert at the end of the film, tells him like it is. And I love how they show Minnesota Fats face, he knows what Eddie's saying is true, that Bert is a soulless monster. It's one of the best scenes in movie history.
This is a sweet Helmar Brewing card featuring Rudolf Wanderone aka Minnesota Fats.
It's a fascinating way of life, being a pool player, it's an extremely difficult game to master, I admire the hell out of anyone with the mental concentration and skill to master the game, pool is ridiculously complex. This is a highly recommended book, the author takes readers on a fascinating tour of smoky bars and pool halls across the nation from the Depression era through the 1950s in search of the legendary figures from America's "age of pool." The author is the same guy that wrote the above article on Rudolf Wanderone aka Minnesota Fats, R.A. Dyer, the man knows his pool. I love the photo of Jersey Red on the cover, the intensity in his eyes.
Thr Color of Money was a great movie as well, of course it was the sequel to The Hustler, it shows Fast Eddie Felson as an older man, he has long since given up being a pool shark and has become a liquor salesman and bar owner. Vincent, a highly skilled young cocky pool shark, walks into Eddie's bar one night and Eddie takes notice and sees a lot of Vincent in his former self, and he decides to take Vincent under his wing and teach him the pool hustler way of life. After a while, Eddie starts to get the itch again, and decides to get back into pool hustling himself. This is my favorite scene in The Color of Money, when Eddie gets hustled by Amos, Forest Whitaker was just brilliant in this role, he really captures the snakelike ways of a pool hustler.
The Iron Sheik's WWE Hall of Fame induction speech in 2005 was absolutely hilarious, epic, he was always entertaining us.
Interesting fact about The Iron Sheik, he was offered $100,000 by AWA promoter Verne Gagne to break Hulk Hogan's leg during a match at Madison Square Garden in 1984, but he refused, choosing instead to lose the match and the WWF title to Hogan. This event marked the beginning of "Hulkamania", which really sent professional wrestling into the stratosphere. The crazy thing is, if The Iron Sheik wanted to break Hogan's leg, he would have had no trouble doing so, the Sheik was built like a damn tree trunk and had a background in Greco Roman wrestling, he wasn't a guy you wanted to mess with.
Bruce Prichard on Infamous Story of Verne Gagne Offering The Iron Sheik Money to Break Hulk Hogan’s Leg, What Sheik Told Vince McMahon About It
– On the latest Something to Wrestle, Bruce Prichard discussed the famous story of AWA promoter Verne Gagne offering The Iron Sheik $100,000 to break the leg of Hulk Hogan and leave WWF with the World Heavyweight title back in January 1984. This was the match where Hogan beat Sheik at Madison Square Garden to win the title and saw the birth of Hulkamania.
Bruce Prichard on truth of the alleged story: “Well, I think the story made the rounds, big time, at that time. So, it was one of those where there was smoke, there was probably fire. I’ve heard the story directly from the Sheik. And Sheik telling that he was going in and everyone knew that Hulk was gonna be the guy. Verne was pissed off that Hulk had left the AWA and gone to the evil New York Vince McMahon motherf***er. So, Vergne was upset, and the — I don’t know if it actually happened or not — but legend has it that Sheik was offered a lot of money humiliate and break Hulk’s leg because if he wanted to break Hulk’s leg, there wasn’t much Hulk was going to be able to do about it. And I think Hulk would tell you that as well, but Sheik went to Vince beforehand and said, ‘Mister Vince, you so good to the Sheik. You take care make champion. I beat jabroni Bob Backlund. I no break his neck. I no break Hulk Hogan’s leg. I put jabroni over for love of you, and you take care of Sheiky.’ And that’s how the story goes.”
Prichard on what Vince McMahon told him about what The Iron Sheik told him before the match: “And Vince has even told me the story of Sheik coming to him before, and Vince wondering, ‘Is Sheik telling me this now to hold me up? And say, OK. I’ll put him over, but I need X amount of money.’ And Sheik didn’t do that. Sheik just told him, ‘I just want you to know before I go in the ring, yes, I was approached. And yes, I was offered money, but I’m not gonna do it. I’m gonna go out and do my job, and I’m gonna put Hogan over.’ [Prichard imitates Iron Sheik] ‘That jabroni. F*** him.'”
Prichard on Iron Sheik’s professionalism: “There’s a sense of professionalism, and in the old days, the old timers that were tough and knew their way around, I guess that maybe they could get away with it to a point. But there’s always somebody else tougher on the other side. Somewhere down the line, you’re gonna get your ass kicked, and you’re gonna get taken out one way or another. And it was just better to be professional. If you didn’t want to do it, then figure something else out, but that wasn’t the case. And Sheik just wanted to clear the air to let everyone know that he was not there to hurt Hulk, and he was there to do business and make this as big as he possibly could.”
Prichard on having Hogan beat The Iron Sheik instead of Bob Backlund: “It’s a bigger win. It’s a bigger win for Hulk Hogan and all American and American Made, Hulkamania, and what have you to beat the evil Iron Sheik from Iran. So, that’s why it was done, so that it would be a heel victory. And [the idea of] Hulk beating Bob Backlund, Bob was still very popular, and there was going to be a big chunk of the audience that’s gonna say, ‘F*** Hulk Hogan then.'”
“The whole reason for bringing him and doing the title switch the way that they did was to get Hulk Hogan over. And that’s what they did. So, they used Iron Sheik, and you have the credibility of Iron Sheik being amateur Olympian, Pan American champion, all this other s*** that the Sheik has done, real credentials, now he has credentials of being a former WWE champion. And to that audience, that was a huge deal, and you made two stars in that process. You got your brand-new babyface over in Hulk, and you created a formidable opponent and foreign terror in The Iron Sheik.”
This is so cool, these are Ancient Roman coins that were in circulation during the time of the Roman empire depicting the Roman Colosseum, fascinating.
Yeah, why not.
There was a thread a while back where Travis Kelce was complaining about having to play in the heat, if he thinks that's bad, he should try making a living at sea, these people have to deal with terrifying storms that produce monster waves, these waves come at you non-stop. The movie "The Perfect Storm" is a true story you know.
This is video from an oil tanker in the North Atlantic, the tanker got caught in a bad storm that lasted for hours, just look at the size of the waves hitting the tanker, I can't imagine how frightening it must have been.
The life of a fisherman at sea, no thanks.
You have to have some serious nerves to be fisherman at sea, these 30-40 foot rogue waves come out of nowhere and they can capsize a boat rather easily, close shave on this one. You can see how terrifying it is, one of the hardest jobs on Earth.
No, I'll tell you what won't be a good look, when Aaron Rodgers shows up at the Steelers season opener looking like this.
Whatever happened to your boy Colin Kaepernick? He's only 37 years old.
Rodgers is 41 years old and must still have something left. The Steelers just paid him.
Nobody is paying Kaepernick to play football.
Not that I could care less about either one of them. LOL
Colin Kaepernick is no fun, Aaron Rodgers is the definition of entertainment. Hey, speaking of Aaron Rodgers, it's time for an Aaron Rodgers joke!
Yes, but that joke could have also been applied to Kaepernick over five years ago.
At least Rodgers shows up for a scheduled workout. Kaepernick gets a multi-team workout scheduled at his request, repeat at his request, and then doesn't show up. 😆
I know you think my Aaron Rodgers jokes are political related, you think that I'm out to get Aaron Rodgers because of his political views. I'm not, I've been having fun with Rodgers jokes for years on this forum. For what it's worth, I don't really care for Kaepernick, I don't like some comments he made about his own parents a while back. Everything isn't political with me Steve, I don't even want to talk about politics anymore, politics are a chitshow, politicians are phony, all of them, they'll say whatever they think people want to hear to get elected and keep their power. I've let go of politics and moved on.
For what it's worth, my view on life is this. Whatever situation life throws at you, do the right thing. Look at the situation, study it, and figure out what the right thing to do is. It's not always easy to determine what the right thing to do is, life can be complex and throw curves at you, but just try to do the right thing.
And yes, I changed my name to Grady Seasons, that is what I wish to be called from here on.
As soon as I saw the name, I knew it was a character from the movie The Color of Money which of course is a sequel to The Hustler, one of my favorite movies.
I was pretty good at the game. I once placed third in a large tournament at Penn State. Still can't believe I lost. I played well, the mudder just outplayed me. LOL
I actually enjoy talking politics, always have. Just not here because ya wind up in CU jail or banished to a far away land somewhere in cyber space. LOL
Actually it's a good business model that CU has. I mean political chat forums and such are a dime a dozen out there. Countless numbers of them. Whereby a coin and card collecting, high quality forum such as this is very difficult to find. Best not to pollute it with political rants, etc.
Of course Sports Talk, including rants, is allowed because for most card collectors, it's an integral part of the fun of card collecting. 😊