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Chinese Counterfeit Circulated Large Cents

lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 8,554 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

Hello Everyone... I took a little hiatus from active collecting over the last year but have recently been looking at a few auctions... just to see what's out there in advance of Baltimore. I found these from the same vendor... The 1840 is an obvious fake... unless they made a crosslet 4 version that's not in CoinFacts. I've been looking at 1846 Tall Dates recently too, and the one offered here looks off to me as well... Are these counterfeit or am I just seeing things? It seems odd to have lower end coins being faked but I suppose if there's a buck to be made...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/316833814345
https://www.ebay.com/itm/316838563092
https://www.ebay.com/itm/316838561337

Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.

Comments

  • Morgan WhiteMorgan White Posts: 8,559 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It’s the extra large date.

  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 9,063 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 23, 2025 7:43PM

    @lkenefic said:
    Hello Everyone... I took a little hiatus from active collecting over the last year but have recently been looking at a few auctions... just to see what's out there in advance of Baltimore. I found these from the same vendor... The 1840 is an obvious fake... unless they made a crosslet 4 version that's not in CoinFacts. I've been looking at 1846 Tall Dates recently too, and the one offered here looks off to me as well... Are these counterfeit or am I just seeing things? It seems odd to have lower end coins being faked but I suppose if there's a buck to be made...

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/316833814345
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/316838563092
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/316838561337

    .

    The "1840" is fake for sure.
    The other two (eBay links) look genuine/corroded/dark (like "dug" metal detector finds).
    But they could also be fake and the evidence hidden (by the corrosion).

    .

    Moonlight Mint
  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,679 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 23, 2025 6:41PM

    My guess is the 1846 is also a fake. He has it listed as a small date, which it’s not, and claims NGC straight graded it MS 61, which I highly doubt. And offered for $39?? And the seller is located in China?

    Successful BST transactions with 171 members. Ebeneezer, Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 9,063 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Walkerguy21D said:
    My guess is the 1846 is also a fake. He has it listed as a small date, which it’s not, and claims NGC straight graded it MS 61, which I highly doubt. And offered for $39?? And the seller is located in China?

    .

    The "1" in the date (1846) does seem to be placed pretty far to the left (farther than any genuine pieces I compared with just now).

    Fake corrosion is possible. If an item costs $1 to make and can be sold for $20 (even when corroded), then that is probably enough incentive to make them.

    .

    Moonlight Mint
  • TomBTomB Posts: 22,066 ✭✭✭✭✭

    All three listings you linked appear fake, fake and fake.

    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 8,554 ✭✭✭✭✭

    OK... looks like someone bought the 1846...

    Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

    Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
  • burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just checked the 1844; he left enough of the barcode on the NGC slab to read; genuine coin shown in comparison:

  • burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 24, 2025 9:09AM

    The 1846 had enough barcode to find the genuine coin as well:

    And the 1840:

    I will notify my contact at NGC...

  • lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 8,554 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It could just be the photography but the 1844 LC looks like a different coin to me. The original piece in the NGC slab looks much more smooth... the one offered in the auction looks corroded.

    Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

    Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
  • burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 24, 2025 9:14AM

    These are all CN counterfeits in fake NGC holders with the wrong prongs...

  • lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 8,554 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @burfle23 said:

    I will notify my contact at NGC...

    Thanks... I got the AI generated BS when I tried to notify ebay.

    Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

    Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
  • jedmjedm Posts: 3,162 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 24, 2025 9:20AM

    These are getting so obnoxiously absurd. The '40 LARGE date is the "crosslet 4" variety too. ;)

  • braddickbraddick Posts: 24,776 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looking at these coins makes me want a 10-minute coin hug, a stack of pancakes, and to never feel sad again.

    peacockcoins

  • heavymetalheavymetal Posts: 630 ✭✭✭✭

    isn't this outright fraud? I can't help but imagine the future scenes of heirs of buyers finding out from legitimate sources that the valuable coins their loved ones bequeathed them are phony. Everyone gets a bad rap except the guilty. The Coin Shop or whoever breaks the bad news is a crook. Who's ever name that's printed on the plastic is worthless. The people who profited from it are long gone. IMO, this is an existential issue eventually to this hobby.

  • epcepc Posts: 287 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sometimes the fakes look right...almost. I've seen cases of LC fakes on ebay (years ago when I was actively collecting LCs) made from dies made from real coins. The problem was that the obverse and reverse didn't go together. I recall thinking I may have found a new variety of 1816 cent when the obverse was easily matched (with whatever obverse it was - I don't recall the details any more) in Wright's book but the reverse was different but looked like it could be real. So I kept investigating and found that it matched a reverse from the 1830s. And as we've seen in other posts about fakes - there are a variety of ways they can be made, and if you look long enough you can find multiple examples of the same fake. The large cent die marriages are well documented. So if you find something that doesn't match, it's almost certainly fake.

    Collector of Liberty Seated Half Dimes, including die pairs and die states

  • lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 8,554 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Fakes (counterfeits) have been around since coins have been around and pre-date Numismatics. Now that we also have to contend with fake plastic on top of fake coins is definitely an existential issue for the hobby... I'm seeing sort of an "arms race" of technology taking hold with companies offering more tamper-proof slabs, or slabs with RFID technology... but then, what do I do with all of the current "old-school" slabs in my collection...

    Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

    Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 12,560 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 27, 2025 5:04PM

    None of three links in the OP are active. Apparently taken down.

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...

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