Has anyone ever seen a 1760 Peru 1 Real Carolus for sale?
Early_Milled_Latin_America
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This is one coin I have never seen in my 2 years of collecting the series. Yonaka states 1 known wonder if there is more out there 9I would assume yes but then again I have no proof).
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Aureo&Calico sold an example explicitly described as Carlos III sold in 2005, plus a few other which could have been Carlos III, and not Fernando VI. They assign Calico catalog numbers to their coins, which I am not familiar with
Was it holed the one in Yonaka's book is holed. Just wondering if it is the same coin or not. Do yo have any images by chance?
Do you know what it sold for?
I’ve never seen one, but I don’t really do much in the way of varieties, so I may have missed it anyway.
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I've never looked for it. I'd buy it if presented the opportunity, but not at any inflated price and it would also have to be a nice example.
I don't consider any variety necessary to complete my set. I'm not expecting to complete any of the four denominations.
Ya know, I just realized the other day that my 1/2R set is complete (I have an example of each date, with the exception of the unique 1751.)
That doesn’t mean it’s “done” though.
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I'm technically complete with the 1R having each date except the 1751. I don't consider it complete because I don't consider several coins part of my set. One is the 1772 where I have a holed VF and I think I have a second one but it's an XF or AU badly corroded.
By my count:
I'm 6+ short on the 1/2R
I'm 3+ short on the 1R
I'm 3+ short on the 2R
With seven, I'm 13 or 14 short on the 4R. (1752 is not confirmed but I'm still going to try to buy it for the $750 or $1000 it's listed in Krause as an XF, and it's listed in other grades too. No, not really.)
I don't own an 8R, yet. I've never made it a priority. I'll eventually buy at least one really nice that completes either a Peru denomination (high quality) date set or a four mint 8R set (Mo, LM, PTS, and G of the same date.) Maybe one coin that does both but that will really tough to do.
The "+" being I own at least a decent coin for the date but am actively looking for a better one. There are also others I will upgrade if I find a better one at an acceptable price, but it's not a priority and probably won't do it for most.
If I had actually done what I should, I'd have most of the 4R in nice or very nice quality too. I've seen most at least once but didn't "stretch" when I should have. The ones I regret most are the first two I saw back in 2002. I'm still waiting for both to come up for sale after 23 years, one at a noticeable multiple and the second at a smaller multiple, to the price I could have paid.
You have a complete 1752-1772 Peru 1 reales set no? You added the 1766 I thought that was it date wise you needed.
Do you own the 1752 1/2, 1 and 2 reales? Maybe for a 8 reales Peru the 1752 would be a great coin to own.
Yonaka states the 1752 4 reales Peru had a mintage of 81 pieces if that is the case I would imagine none still exist. Maybe 1 or 2 if we are lucky are still around. But did they only truly mint 81 pieces that is the question I guess we will never know.
Nope, still missing a 1759. I did recently add a 1766, 1771 and 1760 that I was missing though. I will still need to replace probably half of them to hit XF and above. That’s the goal. Really, there’s no end in sight for any of the denominations. The only denomination that I don’t have a minimum grade for is the 4R, I just want them all to be problem-free (certified with numeric grade.)
At first I was shooting for AU and above, but AU coins are really hard to find. I’ll push most 1/2R coins into that range, I believe.
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The 1759 comes up often enough (I have seen 5 in the last 18 months two I purchased different varieties) I am surprised you never picked one up just to complete the date set till you find better grade wise.
Just never saw one I liked, I knew it was easy enough that I could wait for a decent one…but here I am😂
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The 1752 1/2R is one of the dates I'm missing. I've had several opportunities to buy it but passed because I want a better one. I've seen it enough times, as in more than a few. I do own the 1R and 2R.
The most likely 8R I'll buy to complete a denomination set is the 1758 followed by the 1756 and 1755 in that order. 1759 is an option too but I don't own the 4R and buying one close enough to match is a long shot. 1752 isn't that hard to buy to match the two I own but it's a lot more expensive.
For an 8R mint set, probably the 1770. I own a nice Guatemala and would build around that. LM and Mo aren't hard to buy for this date. Bolivia is a different story. Plenty to buy, but not many nice ones.
You're going to have the same difficulty with the Charles III 1/2R dates I do.
I've identified some of these dates as available in this quality, but not maybe most. I don't have images for all.
The 1754-1759 aren't that hard and the 1753 is doable too. The rest outside of the 1761 I don't know of hardly any. Not saying there aren't any, but don't seem to be public knowledge. Gilboy's plate coins on balance are far better than Yonaka's (it's not even close), but he doesn't illustrate all dates either and of those he does, many aren't that nice across all denominations.
Yonaka mentions one as unconfirmed. I've never seen it. I'd probably never be able to realistically afford it either if it shows up. Even in very low or awful quality, the seller is likely to ask 5 figures for it. No thanks. I might buy a 5-figure coin in retirement if I can afford it, but not sooner and not like that. I don't want it that badly. Patterson's then unique (now 1 of 2) 1751 1/2R sold for 800 GBP plus BP back in 1996, same or about the same as the 1761 4R which I believe is the PCGS MS-62. It's dreck, no matter how rare.
Given the relative frequency I've seen the 1/2, 1, and 2, this is what leads me to believe the mintages are not correct on these three. If the mintages are correct, no way the survival rates should be this high.
I'm thinking it's off by at least a factor of 10. Personal experience is not representative of the scarcity hardly ever, except to confirm it's more common than usually believed. I've seen all three too many times to accurately reflect realistic survival for these three if the mintages are as low as commonly believed, though mintages aren't recorded for the 1/2R.
Just curious, do any of you guys have any affiliation for/with Peru?
Just asking since you all seem so keen on Peruvian coins.
No, from Peru I only really like pillars, Lion & Castle 1/4R, and "royals" but don't own any of the last one. My father's side of the family is from Bolivia, but this isn't a factor. It is the reason I also collect 1864-1909 decimal coinage. Crown sized Boliviano (aka, Toming) has been one of my favorites since I first started collecting in 1975. Still intend to "complete" that set too, up to 1875.
For me, it's entirely a design preference. I first became aware of the pillar dollar from page 3 of the Red Book I owned. I wanted one from that point but as a YN in the late 70's, could not afford it and my local dealers didn't have one anyway. Never saw any until 1991 when I bought a nice 1761 Mexico VF at a large regional ATL show.
The Red Book mentions the other mints and denominations (in passing), but I never read the narrative closely. So didn't know about the other Mexico coins until I bought the North American (Mexico and Canada included) price guide in the early 90's. I still didn't know of the other mints until I started buying on the internet when I resumed collecting in 1998. (Not on eBay, but on other websites which existed at the time.) I saw my first non-Mexico, a 1770 PTS 8R, in 1999 at the ANS.
Bought my first Bolivia pillar in 2002 and first Peru in 2003. Still have both. I initially had a goal of a Mexico denomination set (in 1998) but gradually bought Peru minors, never 8s, when one showed up. I was mostly focused on South Africa Union until 2010.
I focus on Peru and Bolivia now because both are scarcer and more interesting to me than Mexico. I also have a denomination set from Guatemala but don't have the budget for it and these are also much scarcer, so don't hardly see any I want.
I lived in Spain for a few years, living on this side of the pond, Spanish colonial coins were more available and more intriguing than Spain itself. Mostly I really liked the design. One day at a coin shop I bought three pillar coins. A 1749 8R from Mexico (XF) a 1752 2R Mexico (F12) and a 1755 Lima 2R (VF, which I still have.). I bought the group for $75 if I recall. I didn’t know it at the time (2006 or so) but that was a STEAL! I sold the 1749 8R for $500 within a few months, sadly. It was very nice for the grade. The Mexico 2R got lost at the in-laws house. The only time I ever lost a rare coin. I’m still flabbergasted at what happened with it. Just disappeared.
No connections to Peru or Bolivia or Guatemala except the connection to Spain. I’m very much German descent (with a dollop of Iroquois.)
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No (my family history is from Hungary/Germany on one side and Irish on the other) just loved the ''Pirate'' and jungle aspect of Latin America. It is a kid thing in me that has always been there.
I collect all early milled Latin America 1 reales not just Peru. Mexico, Guatemala, Bolivia and Colombia. Thing is Peru is much easier to talk about since they are much easier than Guatemala or Colombia. Bolivia is so short a series 1767-1770 (I have them all by date) there is not to much to talk about. As for Mexico I would talk a lot more about them but I put that set on hold to focus on Peru and Guatemala. I will get back to Mexico in 2026. And well Colombia only has one date the very rare 1760.
I will likely branch out some day to Peru 1/2, 2 and 4 reales when I get much closer to finishing my 1 reales. I do not collect the 8 reales they are not rare for the most part.
Thank you.
Interesting - none of you guys have a strong cultural relationship to Latin America, yet you have an interest in their coinage. Why not! the design of the Mundos Y Mares, or Columnario design alone is so interesting.
As for myself, my das was German, my mother of Spanish and Inca descent, as I like to say. We lived in Peru and Chile for a few years until I was 13, then moved back to Europe.
While we were in Latin America we travelled extensively through both countries, and even though quite young, I developed a strong interest in the history and peoples. Travelling by train through Peru in the 70's I remember how the locals would offer us coins of all types, both colonial and republican, many holed for suspension.
Besides the interesting coinage and history, I find Chile, and specially Peru have a lot to offer, specially the local food! But, that is another topic..
I lived outside the US until age 10, except for one year. This is the reason my interest in US coinage probably did not last. I don't and never did have the cultural connection to US coinage most US collectors do.
From a practical standpoint, it also comes down to affordability. The gap seems to have closed somewhat, but most US collectors predominantly or exclusively buying non-US coinage cannot afford US coins which are (roughly) comparable as collectibles.
When my family moved back to the US in 1975 right after I started collecting, I quickly adopted a preference for US coinage, but it was never the coin types preferred or almost entirely collected by most US collectors. I never had much interest in the 60's US circulating designs (like wheat cents) and absolutely zero in 60's or 70's US Moderns circulating at the time either.
In 1998 when I resumed collecting after numerous breaks, I did consider US coinage, but after comparing what my likely budget could buy vs. Krause list (which I did not know at the time was inaccurate), I chose South Africa Union since my family previously lived there.
Affordability is also one of my reasons. You get to buy very rare coins at a price I can live with (afford). If I collected Canadian coins I would want to do the early 50 cent pieces and well the 1921 would be way out of my price range (starts at around 50k these days).
US coins are great but geez are they expansive and to buy the truly rare coins you have to sell your home and live on the streets. And some even if you sold your home you simply cannot afford. Great if you are rich.
Great Britain also interests me but again the coins are very expensive and so many people collect them the competition can get intense.
Russia is also a country I like as far as coins go. I like the early roubles.
Funny I have never been into collecting coins from Hungary, Germany or Ireland all places where my family originates.
I will stick with Latin American coins.
Me too. At this point, it doesn't matter how much larger my budget can increase, I'd rather collect pillars. I'd just collect all 400+ in the best quality I can find at good value.