Grading question

Morgan13

This a technical question that I would like to know about.
I think this coin is very nice but it has rub on the surfaces. Not many dings. I'm sure it how much rub affects the grade.

lermish

@Morgan13 said:
This a technical question that I would like to know about.
I think this coin is very nice but it has rub on the surfaces. Not many dings. I'm sure it affects the grade I just don't know how much.

Here's a technical question for you. What is your question?

gumby1234

without better pics i would say its a high AU. Could be a nice UNC but cant tell from the pics above.

hummingbird_coins

It doesn't look to me like it has any rub. From those pictures it looks like a 64 at least, but I would need to see different angles to go any higher than that

Morgan13

These are the sellers images. I may take better images when I get it. It's definitely uncirculated from the looks of it. If it has problems I'll send it back. I also think it's a 64. It's for an album I am building for my grandson.

Steven59

It doesn't look like the "Rub" is from any kind of circulation. More like from storage/laying on a flat surface.

BigAl

If you’re asking about the mint frost appearing to be rubbed off of the high relief areas, I don’t think it significantly impacts the grade - unlike dings, field chatter, and rim dents on MS Morgans

Morgan13

@BigAl said:
If you’re asking about the mint frost appearing to be rubbed off of the high relief areas, I don’t think it significantly impacts the grade - unlike dings, field chatter, and rim dents on MS Morgans

That's exactly what I am asking. This coin looks to have little chatter and appears nice and frosty. I don't see how it could possibly be AU.

As @Steven59 said it's probably from storage or possibly being in a roll. I'm looking forward to receiving it.

4Redisin

@lermish said:

@Morgan13 said:
This a technical question that I would like to know about.
I think this coin is very nice but it has rub on the surfaces. Not many dings. I'm sure it affects the grade I just don't know how much.

Here's a technical question for you. What is your question?

It's too bad it was not a Trade dollar. I think it is pretty clear that he wanted one of the members to let him know how the rub he sees AFFECTS THE GRADE! Unfortunately, the image is not very much help. Anyone can see the difference in color on the high spots. While @Morgan13 does not have the coin in hand, here is a "tip" I learned. When the surface of a coin is disturbed, it changes color from the original surface. If the area where the color change occurs is dull and not shiny the coin has wear. A little wear is often tolerated for low MS grades. Enough wear will drop it into the AU range. I think your coin is a commercial MS.

Hopefully, you'll let us see what it really looks like when you get it.

jmlanzaf

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pcgsregistrycollector

@Morgan13 said:
This a technical question that I would like to know about.
I think this coin is very nice but it has rub on the surfaces. Not many dings. I'm sure it how much rub affects the grade.

I am still going MS, but saying lower grade, most likely a 62 or 63. My two cents.

PeakRarities

It looks fine as a 64 or possibly higher grade wise, the frost loss on the eagle shouldn't affect the grade much. Remember it's a 79-s, they're not going to spend a ton of time scrutinizing it when there's no big price jump.

MY question is whether or not it is a loss of "frost" , or if the cloudiness, and the brownish areas eagles on the right wing and obverse rim are the result of an improperly rinsed dip. Did you give this one a bath?

Morgan13

@PeakRarities I very rarely dip a coin but when I do its done properly. I did receive it and the sellers images were totally deceptive. Coins going back. It looked good for $70. I still think it's a valid question which has been answered.
I've been collecting Morgan's for several years and I am still learning.

jmlanzaf

@Morgan13 said:
@PeakRarities I very rarely dip a coin but when I do its done properly. I did receive it and the sellers images were totally deceptive. Coins going back. It looked good for $70. I still think it's a valid question which has been answered.
I've been collecting Morgan's for several years and I am still learning.

Maybe you should only buy slabbed coins...

Morgan13

@jmlanzaf thank you for your advice. I really appreciate it.

jmlanzaf

@Morgan13 said:
@jmlanzaf thank you for your advice. I really appreciate it.

Are those photos yours or the seller's?

4Redisin

@PeakRarities said:
It looks fine as a 64 or possibly higher grade wise, the frost loss on the eagle shouldn't affect the grade much. Remember it's a 79-s, they're not going to spend a ton of time scrutinizing it when there's no big price jump.

MY question is whether or not it is a loss of "frost" , or if the cloudiness, and the brownish areas eagles on the right wing and obverse rim are the result of an improperly rinsed dip. Did you give this one a bath?

While I don't collect Morgan dollars, I have never seen discoloration due to dip residues on the typical wear points of a coin as is the case here. Generally, dip stains remain in the field around the devices where the liquid would be more likely to accumulate.

Cougar1978

I would say it’s AU.

ChrisH821

Did you take pictures? I'd be interested to see the difference.
I also don't understand the AU crowd here. Luster grazes from contact with other coins an AU does not make. Remember, these were stored in bags with 999 other coins.
From the OP images I would think a good shot at 64/65.

PTVETTER

looks like it may not grade?

Morgan13

I am positive it's MS I have it in my hand. I would say MS63 with really nice frost.
@Chrish821 these are the sellers images. I have not taken images myself.

Higashiyama

@Morgan13 -- could you take your own photos and post them? This is an interesting thread and I think many of us would be interested in seeing other photos. Or, can you describe the coin in hand compared to the seller's photo? I'm curious as to how much luster there is. Most 1879s Morgan dollars are "brilliant" rather than frosty, and the small number that are frosty seem to have good luster underneath the frost.

Morgan13

I took some quick phone images. I don't feel like taking out my copy stand and setting it up. It's pretty frosty in hand.
These images have not been photoshopped.

4Redisin

@Morgan13 said:
I took some quick phone images. I don't feel like taking out my copy stand and setting it up. It's pretty frosty in hand.
These images have not been photoshopped.

FWIW, same problem as the original which is much sharper. Neither image looks like a natural coin. Must be the lighting. Cell phone?

Morgan13

@4Redisin so if you read what I wrote it does say phone images.
The coins frosty and grades about 63.

Higashiyama

@Morgan13 -- thanks for posting the photos. They seem quite consistent with the seller's photos. If the coin has luster (i.e. "frosty luster") that is not showing up in the photo, I would expect it to grade above 63. If it is frosty but not lustrous, I would have the concern expressed by @PTVETTER, i.e., might not grade.

gumby1234

@ChrisH821 This is whats with the AU people. This is an AU58 PCGS graded coin.

ChrisH821

@Morgan13 said:
@PeakRarities I very rarely dip a coin but when I do its done properly. I did receive it and the sellers images were totally deceptive. Coins going back. It looked good for $70. I still think it's a valid question which has been answered.
I've been collecting Morgan's for several years and I am still learning.

What was deceptive about them?

@Morgan13 said:
I am positive it's MS I have it in my hand. I would say MS63 with really nice frost.
@Chrish821 these are the sellers images. I have not taken images myself.

MS63 with really nice frost for $70 sounds OK to me. Not a killer deal but not terrible. If it was me I'd keep it and save the extra hassle and enjoy the coin.

@gumby1234 said:

@ChrisH821 This is whats with the AU people. This is an AU58 PCGS graded coin.

The surfaces of that coin look a lot different than the one posted here. There is a lot more going on in the fields and the rub looks more "burnished'.

gumby1234

@ChrisH821 Its just one example but the OP coin could be AU and without better pics we wont know for sure.

pcgsregistrycollector

@gumby1234 said:

@ChrisH821 This is whats with the AU people. This is an AU58 PCGS graded coin.

The breast feathers are almost smooth. That's why its AU.

Morgan13

The coin is not AU. I believe a 63 could go 64 on a good day. It has natural surfaces.
I know what an AU looks like.
Thank you guys for your opinions I appreciate them. There is no reason for an argument. It's not a big deal. The images stink.