Ebay- If you sell counterfeits you can get negative feedback removed as long as you refund the buyer

Connecticoin

So I buy this 1883-CC Morgan as follows:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/176945534913

The closing bid was somewhat low because the seller said it was "cleaned" - my thought was the seller did not know what a "cleaned" coin looks like, and just used the term generically. Even if it did have hairlines, I figured I could sell it at a small loss, so thought it was worth the gamble.

So this is what I received, blatantly counterfeit, and nothing like the coin pictured

So I file a SNAD with ebay, include these pictures, and the seller agrees to accept the return.

So once I got the refund, I then saw that the seller re-listed the bogus coin.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/177004865008

So I left the seller negative feedback - yeah I got the refund, but I wanted to warn other bidders that the seller was listing bogus coins that looked nothing like the photos.

Subsequently, I check to see what lame reply the seller left in response to the negative feedback, and lo and behold, it was removed! So ebay sellers, feel free to sell counterfeit coins with impunity, as long as you refund those who know the difference!

MsMorrisine

I see sellers with feedback mentioning counterfeit a lot while reporting counterfeit listings

there are things you can say and can't. what was the text?

johnny9434

Nothing surprises me me on the bay, jmo

jmlanzaf

You make it sound like the counterfeit is the relevant part. It is possible to get feedback removed. Period. I've done it.

UpGrayedd

@jmlanzaf said:
You make it sound like the counterfeit is the relative part. It is possible to get feedback removed. Period. I've done it.

I don't think the OP makes it sound like the counterfeit is the relative part. I think the OP is pointing out how absurd it is that eBay removed negative feedback that was deserved.

There may be certain instances where eBay removing negative feedback is warranted, but selling counterfeits is not one of them. I looked at the seller's other items, and a large part of their business model seems to be designed at preying on the naive and uneducated (not saying that about the OP), so negative feedback may have actually helped some from falling victim.

MFeld

@Connecticoin said:
So I buy this 1883-CC Morgan as follows:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/176945534913

The closing bid was somewhat low because the seller said it was "cleaned" - my thought was the seller did not know what a "cleaned" coin looks like, and just used the term generically. Even if it did have hairlines, I figured I could sell it at a small loss, so thought it was worth the gamble.

So this is what I received, blatantly counterfeit, and nothing like the coin pictured

So I file a SNAD with ebay, include these pictures, and the seller agrees to accept the return.

So once I got the refund, I then saw that the seller re-listed the bogus coin.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/177004865008

So I left the seller negative feedback - yeah I got the refund, but I wanted to warn other bidders that the seller was listing bogus coins that looked nothing like the photos.

Subsequently, I check to see what lame reply the seller left in response to the negative feedback, and lo and behold, it was removed! So ebay sellers, feel free to sell counterfeit coins with impunity, as long as you refund those who know the difference!

That’s a large part of the reason that those who sell counterfeits (as well as coins with grossly manipulated images, etc.) can have 100% positive feedback. They usually know when to allow returns without putting up a fight.

burfle23

I understand the OP's post, but always key in on "counterfeit" ...

Wow, I just wrote an article on Bad Bay listings like this- use a stolen image for a counterfeit sale.

The 1883-CC is one of the most counterfeited coins currently along with the 1881-CC; both of the fakes use a common reverse, so I certainly agree with his assessment of the coin "in-Hand". I had a similar purchase of a bad large cent and eBay wasn't any help. Seller offered to take it back but the shipping back to CN was more than I paid.

jmlanzaf

@UpGrayedd said:

@jmlanzaf said:
You make it sound like the counterfeit is the relative part. It is possible to get feedback removed. Period. I've done it.

I don't think the OP makes it sound like the counterfeit is the relative part. I think the OP is pointing out how absurd it is that eBay removed negative feedback that was deserved.

There may be certain instances where eBay removing negative feedback is warranted, but selling counterfeits is not one of them. I looked at the seller's other items, and a large part of their business model seems to be designed at preying on the naive and uneducated (not saying that about the OP), so negative feedback may have actually helped some from falling victim.

Except eBay doesn't know the coins are counterfeit. Nobody but the OP saw them as the picture with the listing was of a real coin.

MsMorrisine

@jmlanzaf said:

Except eBay doesn't know the coins are counterfeit. Nobody but the OP saw them as the picture with the listing was of a real coin.

and when the wrong item is received, ebay doesn't know the coin was wrong. nobody but the op saw them as the picture with the listing showed the item described

UpGrayedd

@jmlanzaf said:

@UpGrayedd said:

@jmlanzaf said:
You make it sound like the counterfeit is the relative part. It is possible to get feedback removed. Period. I've done it.

I don't think the OP makes it sound like the counterfeit is the relative part. I think the OP is pointing out how absurd it is that eBay removed negative feedback that was deserved.

There may be certain instances where eBay removing negative feedback is warranted, but selling counterfeits is not one of them. I looked at the seller's other items, and a large part of their business model seems to be designed at preying on the naive and uneducated (not saying that about the OP), so negative feedback may have actually helped some from falling victim.

Except eBay doesn't know the coins are counterfeit. Nobody but the OP saw them as the picture with the listing was of a real coin.

I don't know what eBay does or doesn't know, but I do know that eBay is littered with counterfeit coins and it doesn't appear that they care.

rec78

@MsMorrisine said:

@jmlanzaf said:

Except eBay doesn't know the coins are counterfeit. Nobody but the OP saw them as the picture with the listing was of a real coin.

and when the wrong item is received, ebay doesn't know the coin was wrong. nobody but the op saw them as the picture with the listing showed the item described

When you ask ebay for a refund for an item "not as described" you should put photos in the request.(this used to be requited-I don't know if it still is) eBay will see that the item is not the one shown in the listing. I can see that the problem is that eBay removes the feedback when you return an item. eBay does this so they can make more money because the buyer cannot leave negative feedback if the item is returned. When the seller has few or no negatives eBay gets more sales, thus making more money. I can see eBay's point also, why should you be allowed to leave negative feedback if you returned the item and got refunded?

I can see the problem, but I don't know the answer.

burfle23

In the case of my 1846 large cent, I sent my return/ refund request through the Bay with images of the listing, the listing images, the listing seller stole the listing images from and the the obvious CN counterfeit I received. eBay then KNEW, removed the listing as bad, removed the seller and I no longer had any ability to leave ANY feedback. eBay did NOT provide a label for return and the no-longer a member seller simply gave me a CN address to send it to for a refund. I now have this POS in my collection and blame myself as well as the other "participants"...

MFeld

@rec78 said:

@MsMorrisine said:

@jmlanzaf said:

Except eBay doesn't know the coins are counterfeit. Nobody but the OP saw them as the picture with the listing was of a real coin.

and when the wrong item is received, ebay doesn't know the coin was wrong. nobody but the op saw them as the picture with the listing showed the item described

When you ask ebay for a refund for an item "not as described" you should put photos in the request.(this used to be requited-I don't know if it still is) eBay will see that the item is not the one shown in the listing. I can see that the problem is that eBay removes the feedback when you return an item. eBay does this so they can make more money because the buyer cannot leave negative feedback if the item is returned. When the seller has few or no negatives eBay gets more sales, thus making more money. I can see eBay's point also, why should you be allowed to leave negative feedback if you returned the item and got refunded?

I can see the problem, but I don't know the answer.

Even if you return an item and get a refund, you should still be allowed to leave negative feedback so that others can be warned that the seller sold a counterfeit. Feedback is supposed to be a means to provide helpful/accurate information to potential bidders. And the sale of a counterfeit is pertinent information.

JBK

@burfle23 said:
In the case of my 1846 large cent, I sent my return/ refund request through the Bay with images of the listing, the listing images, the listing seller stole the listing images from and the the obvious CN counterfeit I received. eBay then KNEW, removed the listing as bad, removed the seller and I no longer had any ability to leave ANY feedback. eBay did NOT provide a label for return and the no-longer a member seller simply gave me a CN address to send it to for a refund. I now have this POS in my collection and blame myself as well as the other "participants"...

My understanding has always been that if you file a SNAD (significantly not as described) then the seller must provide a full reimbursement, including shipping costs both ways. That is different than a simple return request.

burfle23

@JBK said:

@burfle23 said:
In the case of my 1846 large cent, I sent my return/ refund request through the Bay with images of the listing, the listing images, the listing seller stole the listing images from and the the obvious CN counterfeit I received. eBay then KNEW, removed the listing as bad, removed the seller and I no longer had any ability to leave ANY feedback. eBay did NOT provide a label for return and the no-longer a member seller simply gave me a CN address to send it to for a refund. I now have this POS in my collection and blame myself as well as the other "participants"...

My understanding has always been that if you file a SNAD (significantly not as described) then the seller must provide a full reimbursement, including shipping costs both ways. That is different than a simple return request.

I filed a SNAD.

Connecticoin

@burfle23 said:
In the case of my 1846 large cent, I sent my return/ refund request through the Bay with images of the listing, the listing images, the listing seller stole the listing images from and the the obvious CN counterfeit I received. eBay then KNEW, removed the listing as bad, removed the seller and I no longer had any ability to leave ANY feedback. eBay did NOT provide a label for return and the no-longer a member seller simply gave me a CN address to send it to for a refund. I now have this POS in my collection and blame myself as well as the other

I did too, and the seller quickly approved the return. After I got my refund and saw the seller re-listed the coin with the same (not accurate) auction photo, I posted negative feedback, said that the coin received was counterfeit, and included a photo of the coin with the neg feedback. The ebay agent probably did not look at any of the photos I provided, the fact that the bogus coin was re-listed. I don’t know what I could have done differently.

Connecticoin

Sorry for delayed follow-up, was not feeling well 🤢

Connecticoin

@MFeld said:

@rec78 said:

@MsMorrisine said:

@jmlanzaf said:

Except eBay doesn't know the coins are counterfeit. Nobody but the OP saw them as the picture with the listing was of a real coin.

and when the wrong item is received, ebay doesn't know the coin was wrong. nobody but the op saw them as the picture with the listing showed the item described

When you ask ebay for a refund for an item "not as described" you should put photos in the request.(this used to be requited-I don't know if it still is) eBay will see that the item is not the one shown in the listing. I can see that the problem is that eBay removes the feedback when you return an item. eBay does this so they can make more money because the buyer cannot leave negative feedback if the item is returned. When the seller has few or no negatives eBay gets more sales, thus making more money. I can see eBay's point also, why should you be allowed to leave negative feedback if you returned the item and got refunded?

I can see the problem, but I don't know the answer.

Even if you return an item and get a refund, you should still be allowed to leave negative feedback so that others can be warned that the seller sold a counterfeit. Feedback is supposed to be a means to provide helpful/accurate information to potential bidders. And the sale of a counterfeit is pertinent information.

Agreed. Ebay now enables this business model: 1) Sell cheap (even with 100% tariffs) Chinese counterfeits of key date US coins with genuine listing photos, 2) deliver cheap counterfeit, refund those who know the difference and make gobs of money on those who don’t, and 3) ebay will have your back and remove any negative feedback from those you refunded.

AND you can buy plenty of key date fakes for your business model right on ebay (no need to go to sketchy Alibaba), as there are plenty available, and those pesky coin collectors who try to end the listings get shut down by ebay “customer service” agents who “find the listing is not in violation”

ifthevamzarockin

@Connecticoin said:
I did too, and the seller quickly approved the return. After I got my refund and saw the seller re-listed the coin with the same (not accurate) auction photo, I posted negative feedback, said that the coin received was counterfeit, and included a photo of the coin with the neg feedback. The ebay agent probably did not look at any of the photos I provided, the fact that the bogus coin was re-listed. I don’t know what I could have done differently.

And ebay sent them a prompt to re-list.

jesbroken

I purchased a counterfeit RE CBHDollar without the advantage of the book. It was counterfeit and I proceeded with a refund request with photo's of proof along with scale photo weight which was low. Immediately, refund was approved by ebay and the seller and seller was to provide return shipping label. Ebay said if not all goes as planned in 3 days we will step in to finalize. Three days go by with no contact nor shipping label. Contacted Ebay(which is a hoot and purposely tries to wear you out) Finally was contacted and told So sorry you are having difficulty with your refund, we have stepped in and contacted the seller and gave them 5 days to provide return shipping label or we will refund and you keep the coin. Not a benefit, as it's counterfeit. So their idea of stepping in is another 5 days for the seller to do nothing, as I feel the seller would rather throw the coin away than pay return shipping as it has no value.
Jus' sayin'.
Jim