Guess the Grade & final price (Morgan) [Revealed in comments]

U1chicago

This was a coin I was debating but did not win. More on my reasoning after the reveal.
For now please guess the grade and the final price (including the auction fee...no cheating as you're only hurting yourself ).

sanddollar

AT at $800.00

john_nyc1

I’m guessing GC wouldn’t sell AT so I’m guessing MS66+ for $7,500 (pulling figure out of thin air!).

bigmountainlion

MS67 $4000?

Coinscratch

67+ 18,500.

SeattleSlammer

Geez that looks obvious AT — but it snuck through, eh? It’s especially wrong for a toned 83-O.

Rc5280

64+, $3600 in total. The reverse ding count is up there.

GC sells dozens & dozens of AT coins weekly.

SeattleSlammer

@Rc5280 said:
64+, $3600 in total. The reverse ding count is up there.

GC sells dozens & dozens of AT coins weekly.

I haven’t looked — I was just guessing PCGS must have straight graded it instead of putting it in a QC slab — but if you’re saying it is in a QC slab, and it still sold for big money to someone, well then that’s just plain stupid!

U1chicago

@SeattleSlammer said:

@Rc5280 said:
64+, $3600 in total. The reverse ding count is up there.

GC sells dozens & dozens of AT coins weekly.

I haven’t looked — I was just guessing PCGS must have straight graded it instead of putting it in a QC slab — but if you’re saying it is in a QC slab, and it still sold for big money to someone, well then that’s just plain stupid!

I think the comment was in reference to another poster saying that GC would not sell AT coins. They do have details slabs in each auction, including some that are labeled as QC (PCGS) or AT (NGC, Anacs).

Rexford

Based on the pics the coin is AT, regardless what the label might say.

john_nyc1

Thanks for correcting me @Rc5280.

This an interesting case!

skier07

It’s kind of difficult to guess a final price without knowing the grade but I suppose with rainbow Morgan’s that are straight graded even though they look AT the sky is the limit.

Rc5280

@SeattleSlammer said:

@Rc5280 said:
64+, $3600 in total. The reverse ding count is up there.

GC sells dozens & dozens of AT coins weekly.

I haven’t looked — I was just guessing PCGS must have straight graded it instead of putting it in a QC slab — but if you’re saying it is in a QC slab, and it still sold for big money to someone, well then that’s just plain stupid!

I don't think that it's in a QC slab(I haven't looked either), but it may have been recently reholdered-straight, from a coin that passed the AT smell test from 15-20 years back?

safari_dude

MS66+. $3,400

coastaljerseyguy

Not sure I've ever seen NT toning almost exactly replicated on both obv & rev sides, so I'd also lean towards AT. Very weak strike both on both sides, so if straight graded 65+. $2,500

Morgan13

This is a tough one. The surfaces look flawless. Colors seem to be consistent on both sides. Nice coin
MS66 Tones $850

cheezhed

66+ $2800

gumby1234

For everyone claiming AT can you explain why you think that? The color progression looks natural and as it should for a naturally toned coin. Its a beautiful example and most likely brought moon money.

My guess is MS66 and a 5 figure price tag.

gumby1234

@coastaljerseyguy While not a Morgan i have a spectacular Roosevelt dime with toning that is the same on both sides.

jesbroken

Unc details QC $300
Jim

Morgan13

@gumby1234 you could be right. It's so tough with these toners.

Mr_Spud

67 $2000

gumby1234

@Morgan13 said:
@gumby1234 you could be right. It's so tough with these toners.

It can be tough, but once you know how color progresses on a coin that toned naturally over many years it becomes much easier.

coastaljerseyguy

@Gumby
The Merc looks NT since it probably sat in mint packaging. However Morgans acquired the toning from the mint bag, OBW, some collector tray or envelope. I would think it hard to get that same circular toning on both side without some AT method. Could be wrong but its a 1 in a million.

gumby1234

@coastaljerseyguy Many Morgans are bag toned, but there are also Morgans that sat in rolls or old coin albums and acquired a different type of toning which is usually more spectacular than bag toners. Although I have seen some really beautiful bag toners also. The important part in trying to determine AT versus NT is the colors and the progression of those colors on a coin. There was or still is a web site that explains all of this much better than I ever could, but I dont recall the name of it. I will try to find it.

Edit to add MonstertonedMorgans.com there's a lot of reading, but its very informative.

DrewU

I’m guessing QC AU details and $250. I think a lot of NT gets called questionable on the boards, but this is fairly classic AT in my opinion.

marcmoish

65+
But not a fan, and I like many of these.

Hadleydog

I'm guessing 65, but not a fan of the color. That much pink (a rare color) with little emerald green makes me suspicious. I also don't see any elevation chromatics nor any pull away.
As for price, probably too much.

U1chicago

Any more guesses before the reveal?

SeattleSlammer

@gumby1234 said:
For everyone claiming AT can you explain why you think that? The color progression looks natural and as it should for a naturally toned coin. It’s a beautiful example and most likely brought moon money.

Collected toners for 25+ years. Seen thousands and thousands of toned Morgan’s. This one is just flat AT, and if it’s in a straight graded slab then our host got it wrong. And if it’s in a straight graded slab with a bean then JA blew it, too.

iykyk

Bochiman

@gumby1234 said:
@coastaljerseyguy While not a Morgan i have a spectacular Roosevelt dime with toning that is the same on both sides.

I've collected toned Morgans AND toned Roosevelts.
Your dime looks much more NT than that Morgan.

I won't get into everything on that Morgan, but there are at least 3 reasons I believe it to be AT.

U1chicago

PCGS graded this one MS 63. And it went for $873.56 with the fee at GC.
To me the coin looks like some of the more typical examples of AT that one sees in places like eBay where the seller has a handful that all look similar. I believe it is a mix of chemicals and heat that produces this result.
The grade is also a bit strange; if PCGS felt it was market acceptable, I would have figured it looked better than a 63 (unless the luster is subdued enough or there is a hint of wear and it became a super slider).

I saw this coin hovering in the low $300s with a few hours to go and contemplated a bid that would be in the $400-$450 range. For a coin that is AT, that would already be a significant price, but I somewhat liked it and figured it would be an interesting addition to my set. Fortunately for me, someone wanted it a lot more than me and likely saved me from a questionable buy (I might change that opinion if I later see it resell for a lot more).

https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/1754773/1883-O-Morgan-Silver-Dollar-PCGS-MS-63-Toned

gumby1234

In the slab shot above it appears to be more questionable. The photos from the OP are what I had to go on. I would have to see this one in person to decide for myself.

U1chicago

@gumby1234 said:
In the slab shot above it appears to be more questionable. The photos from the OP are what I had to go on. I would have to see this one in person to decide for myself.

The slab photo and the Great Photo are both from Great Collections. The TrueView photo is from PCGS. I think it looks questionable in all the photos.

coastaljerseyguy

New photo above shows a lot more abrasion on cheek then TrueView & GC. That photo would not have had a GTG above 63, never mind the toning.

Morgan13

I was $25 dollars off from the purchase price but 3 points off from the grading. The original images are very deceptive.

cheezhed

Another example of why it's impossible to ascertain a coins' state of preservation from a photo.

john_nyc1

Very interesting Guess The Grade & Price. I agree with OP it's really hard to square all the info.
If the coin is NT it is clearly better than MS63. Still, the toning looks too perfect, it looks AT.
I collect Morgans and while I like the toners as much as the next guy this post illustrates why I don't pay serious toner premiums; there are some very talented chemists out there.
I believe we could one day see toner premiums head toward zero.

U1chicago

@john_nyc1 said:
Very interesting Guess The Grade & Price. I agree with OP it's really hard to square all the info.
If the coin is NT it is clearly better than MS63. Still, the toning looks too perfect, it looks AT.
I collect Morgans and while I like the toners as much as the next guy this post illustrates why I don't pay serious toner premiums; there are some very talented chemists out there.
I believe we could one day see toner premiums head toward zero.

This is certainly an interesting examples based on the grade. I disagree that it's "too perfect" and instead am confident that the graders made a mistake. The colors are not right and it should have come back QC. I think more times than not, it would be QC.

As far as premiums, I do not see them heading towards zero. The premiums have been there for at least three decades now, so it is no fad. Plus, eye appeal (which attractive toning helps increase) will always be a big factor in premium. Ugly coins will sell for less and nice coins will sell for more.