Still trying but the Bay just doesn't care; counterfeits seem to rule there now,

burfle23

I still occasionally try the reporting on the Bay; kinda like hitting yourself on the thumb with a hammer- feels better when you stop...

I have reported this one a couple of times running through the appropriate menu but am frustrated and tried a new approach. We'll see if I even get an answer...

Images of the report and the attached comparison image; I have even contacted the seller twice but no response and the listing remains.

Link: https://www.ebay.com/itm/176894712091?_skw=1881+cc+morgan+dollar&itmmeta=01JPGECYDCB6QGDF4CTN6X0HRW&hash=item292fbf191b:g:7scAAOSwndZnx4Th&itmprp=enc:AQAKAAAA8FkggFvd1GGDu0w3yXCmi1fZm6tyD/g2V4LBrp0IVGg6+tOnSg+dIjLHeDlBm/IMJhiqwgOKS+JFtv0Erq9/SmXlIih85KczCnLI39Izf+QD2WpJgGRpdTkZ4LM1x+/QQCkOPjoVIZhL7moriZ++di1rz3L4CK1auKWUxLe8at91kvdPxHpcgE/bqLWyYhnw6jRqm8zxOty5wq/FequqpcrihTOoZpWe4bz2pQm/jDnKMBWuG+3YzHzfvGLD4hq4zIhJpgipn1kyIgpgY8GKIzyEOYsoNoVpCXNoDDV48i57jr428Yo+y1W56wMTDxRHRw==|tkp:Bk9SR-jms460ZQ

I would think our host would get tired of the Bay fakes in fakes...

sm_delta

I appreciate your effort Jack. I just put in a report also. I did not try your fertilizer label, however. I will post the response when available. Thanks

You might have noticed this but the cert number on the slab (#46457238) is different than in the "item specifics" (#60008519). #46457238 has a photo and #60008519 does not.

kaz

"Fertilizer," of the very organic kind, seems entirely appropriate!

burfle23

@sm_delta said:
I appreciate your effort Jack. I just put in a report also. I did not try your fertilizer label, however. I will post the response when available. Thanks

You might have noticed this but the cert number on the slab (#46457238) is different than in the "item specifics" (#60008519). #46457238 has a photo and #60008519 does not.

Yes, he has a 2nd one with the same cert mislabeled in his listing as an 1886 with a 3rd cert number in the description. I have tried all but the fertilizer approach with this one...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/176861926464?itmmeta=01JPGQYB4AXYJAWCPEF9FGPXZB&hash=item292dcad440:g:xrEAAOSwhPxnt6VC

MsMorrisine

@burfle23 said:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/176861926464

this one is interesting. the ear and the hair immediately behind the ears is wrong. first time i've noted that hair

mr1931S

Playing cop is not working out. Proven here time and time again. Speak with your pocketbook and quit buying coins on ebay!

IkesT

@mr1931S said:
Playing cop is not working out. Proven here time and time again. Speak with your pocketbook and quit buying coins on ebay!

That's harsche.

burfle23

@mr1931S said:
Playing cop is not working out. Proven here time and time again. Speak with your pocketbook and quit buying coins on ebay!

Really? Is that response actually aimed at me?

TPring

Why should "The Bay" care about people buying counterfeit coins? If someone is not bright enough to check out a coin before spending $1000 on it through pictures from a seller who has a 0 for feedback on a site known for sheisters. Ebay also has a return policy that can be utilized if needed. It is incumbent on the buyer to educate himself/herself.

Mr_Spud

Thanks for doing what you do. I’d never be aware how prevalent 5his is without your efforts.

sm_delta

@burfle23 said:

@sm_delta said:
I appreciate your effort Jack. I just put in a report also. I did not try your fertilizer label, however. I will post the response when available. Thanks

You might have noticed this but the cert number on the slab (#46457238) is different than in the "item specifics" (#60008519). #46457238 has a photo and #60008519 does not.

Yes, he has a 2nd one with the same cert mislabeled in his listing as an 1886 with a 3rd cert number in the description. I have tried all but the fertilizer approach with this one...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/176861926464?itmmeta=01JPGQYB4AXYJAWCPEF9FGPXZB&hash=item292dcad440:g:xrEAAOSwhPxnt6VC

I reported the 1886 also. Hopefully, eBay AI will save the day

burfle23

@sm_delta said:

@burfle23 said:

@sm_delta said:
I appreciate your effort Jack. I just put in a report also. I did not try your fertilizer label, however. I will post the response when available. Thanks

You might have noticed this but the cert number on the slab (#46457238) is different than in the "item specifics" (#60008519). #46457238 has a photo and #60008519 does not.

Yes, he has a 2nd one with the same cert mislabeled in his listing as an 1886 with a 3rd cert number in the description. I have tried all but the fertilizer approach with this one...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/176861926464?itmmeta=01JPGQYB4AXYJAWCPEF9FGPXZB&hash=item292dcad440:g:xrEAAOSwhPxnt6VC

I reported the 1886 also. Hopefully, eBay AI will save the day

They completely covered their bases on this one ...

jesbroken

I wonder if someone who attends many coin shows throughout the year could take a letter complaining about Ebay's AI crapshoot for counterfeit coins and signed by a few thousand collectors throughout a year might sway them in some way?
Just a thought.
Jim

segoja

Here is the problem with counterfeits. I see them almost everyday. Many folks are not coin collectors. They don't know coins like we do here. They rely on platforms like E-Bay to get rid of the filth. The platforms should get rid of the filth. Jack is doing a great job, and as the President of the PNG I am working with E-Bay to help use talent like Jack and PNG Dealers (Many of whom have been in business for 25,35 and even 50+ years) to be experts that will result in listings being taken down that are fake.

Doug Davis with ACEF is also pushing this. To be considered a crime, a person must "knowingly" sell a counterfeit. He informs them and then makes sure its not relisted, even under a new name (they track IP Addresses)

We will never get rid of all the fakes, but if we sit back and do nothing, they will over run our hobby and it will devalue real coins.

mr1931S

Has a seller ever had to answer to a judge in a court of law for selling counterfeit coins on ebay?

sm_delta

eBay has decided that the listings by the seller are not in violation. The determination was made by a customer service agent in all three cases.

burfle23

@sm_delta said:
eBay has decided that the listings by the seller are not in violation. The determination was made by a customer service agent in all three cases.

My latest as well; slightly different message this time:

mr1931S

@sm_delta said:
eBay has decided that the listings by the seller are not in violation. The determination was made by a customer service agent in all three cases.

ebay too cheap to hire actual coin experts but the cops are free.

segoja

Has a seller ever had to answer to a judge in a court of law for selling counterfeit coins on ebay?

Yes There was a case a few years ago..might have been a scam vs fakes, but they did go to court

MFeld

After having made countless reports regarding counterfeit coins and scams to eBay (off and on for more than 20 years), I've recently given up. During the past few months, even the most obvious of counterfeits I've reported have been deemed by eBay not to be in violation of their policy.

sellitstore

Same is true in the paper money categories, but we don't have as many cops reporting fakes, so, if they don't care about coins, they certainly don't care about currency fakes.

mr1931S

Lots of money in counterfeiting. The risk is low of getting caught manufacturing counterfeits. Seller in US can say, "I didn't make it, didn't know when I bought it that i was buying a counterfeit" every single time his or her merchandise is questioned for authenticity.

erscolo

Simple education will address much of the problem. As long as there are people, there will be crooks. I have been purchasing coins on eBay since 2019 (a new purchaser to many), and with more than 1,100 coins, not a fake thus far. If I were to go after the Morgan and Peace Dollars or gold, certainly I would need more education. Learning is a joy, shopping wisely is a benefit of that learning.

Cougar1978

It is what it is over there or any other venue. Players need to be cognizant of counterfeits, learn how to grade / look at coins, take responsibility, and educate themselves. I would recommend a personal risk limit. RCI is risky but thanks for the wake-up call on fakes. I always do a certificate lookup on stuff am buying. Verify the slab number, coin I am buying (receive) matches the TPG one.

thebeav

I just happened to look at Morgan and Peace dollars on ebay yesterday. I just did a buy-it-now search showing 'lowest price first'. I couldn't believe how many counterfeits are listed from China, Hong Kong or Taiwan. Selling prices around 18 dollars. Many listings showing 12 pieces sold, or some such thing.
There has to be a way for ebay to get ahead of this, but I don't know what it is.

fathom

That is unfortunate. IMO it is mirroring what is happening on the web at large, for example social media. Lacking regulation, the massive expansion of misinformation and harmful content fed as a result of the necessity to drive profits without moderation.

When buyers get burned to the degree they stop buying and it hits ebay profits it will reverse....one hopes.

mr1931S

@thebeav said:
I just happened to look at Morgan and Peace dollars on ebay yesterday. I just did a buy-it-now search showing 'lowest price first'. I couldn't believe how many counterfeits are listed from China, Hong Kong or Taiwan. Selling prices around 18 dollars. Many listings showing 12 pieces sold, or some such thing.
There has to be a way for ebay to get ahead of this, but I don't know what it is.

American consumers of Asian origin counterfeits. The fact that there is a market for counterfeits here in the US is the problem.

291fifth

Abandon hope all ye who enter ... there.

mr1931S

Buy keys only top shelf certified on ebay. PCGS Gold Shield with NFC counterfeit technology is the best imo.If one wants their keys to be in an album with the commons, buy the key date PCGS certified and crack. Remember, oftentimes there is a deal breaker good reason why a key date one finds for sale is not in a TPG holder.

OnlyGoldIsMoney

I once looked to ebay as a source of coins for my collection. Ebay's indifference to counterfeits convinced me to deal with only major auction houses and reputable dealers,

MFeld

@OnlyGoldIsMoney said:
I once looked to ebay as a source of coins for my collection. Ebay's indifference to counterfeits convinced me to deal with only major auction houses and reputable dealers,

There are plenty of reputable sellers on eBay who don’t sell counterfeit coins. Sadly, the difficulties for many buyers are knowing who those sellers are and the difference between genuine and counterfeit coins.

burfle23

I posted this on MyCollect in the ebay group earlier this morning from eBay's seated dollar offerings; becoming a true cesspool there...

segoja

E-Bay will only listen when they get a class action lawsuit. If I were an attorney, I'd be going after them big time.

burfle23

I am hopeful that with a coalition between the PNG, ACEF and the TPG's who's intellectual property is often violated by the Bay sellers that something can be done in the future. I continue to preach education as the best defense in the present.

Namvet69

I laud your efforts.
Legal Depts should be petitioning a Federal judge for seizure warrants, just like fashion designer labels do. Many use private investigators to buy "evidence" for analysis. This would apply to US players.