For Dealers - Gold Appraisals for Estate Purposes
GuzziSport
Posts: 102 ✭✭✭✭
I have to liquidate an estate that contains some bullion gold - both 1oz Buffalos as well as generic, certified $20 libs and SGs. In all, about 30 individual pieces.
Question for you dealers who have estate liquidation experience, does your appraisal of that lot represent your purchase price, OR your sell price, at the deceased’s date of death?
Also, for the common certified libs and SGs, should I expect an appraisal based solely on gold content, or collector value? All are slabbed PCGS or NGC, most ms63-64, one Wells Fargo $20 in ms66. (I believe that one to be overgraded, but….)
Many thanks for your input!
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If it's an appraisal for estate purposes, fair market value at the date of death is what they are looking for.
@nags thanks makes sense…
What is "fair market value?"
Spot for Bullion and for numismatic items you probably have some discretion, but I assume a Price Guide would be accepted by the IRS.
A formal appraisal should include the rationale for the price in the document.
When providing appraisals for estate proposes, I take into account auction prices, direct sales, electronic bid prices and price guides. When especially valuable coins are involved, I include auction comps.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
A Common scenario -
It is usually a dealers offer price (solicited by the heirs) negotiated based on current market conditions, whsl values for Retail inventory procurement. As far as some legal issue defer to posters above.
Estate examples acquired had been one donated to a church (binder of raw Mexican 19th / early 20 th century coins about 10 pages in 2x2, and a very high quality collection of World currency a young couple inherited. While I have a very large experience in US (coins and currency) I have handled world too. At one time a specialist in Irish and Vatican coinage.
Also, for estate purposes appraisal value is at the date of death. This is for all assets.
Keep in mind the current estate tax exemption for 2025 is $13,990,000.00.
Most likely the valuation would be utilized to divide up the assets among the heirs or sold on their behalf.
If I am doing an appraisal for value, insurance, where there not selling. I use uiction prices, expectant replacement cost , etc
if I am doing one for the family wanting to sell, I simply state what i am willing to pay.
and i explain the difference and let them decide.
taking a price on a whole assortment of stuff say x, and then say i would buy at x-10% just dosn't work across the board.
bullion related items will be considerably less profit margin, and esoteric , hard to sell stuff will be much more percentage becuase lots of times it has to be discounted to sell it.
For bullion, I'd stick to a single figure, like bullion value or the slightly lower dealer buy price. Being the actual price that one would receive if sold on the date of death, it would be easier (and more accurate) to justify this price. Multiple sources like auction prices, direct sales, electronic bid prices and price guides only confuse the matter and some would tend to skew the prices higher than they should be, resulting in an overpayment of tax due.
Multiple prices sources are appropriate for rare coins but not bullion. Avoid any disputes. Keep it simple.
In reality, this is not an item that is likely to be disputed unless the figures are way off. If you value your bullion at $1000/oz it might raise some red flags but a $2800 vs. $3000/oz valuation probably won't make a difference.
Sorry I wasn't clear. I wasn't speaking of bullion coins which have no value beyond their precious metal content.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
No, I'm sorry.
I thought that we were speaking about "bullion gold - both 1oz Buffalos as well as generic, certified $20 libs and SGs".
Maybe neither of us should be sorry.
The initial post mentioned bullion "some bullion gold - both 1oz Buffalos as well as generic, certified $20 libs and SGs."
and "Also, for the common certified libs and SGs, should I expect an appraisal based solely on gold content, or collector value? All are slabbed PCGS or NGC, most ms63-64, one Wells Fargo $20 in ms66."
So apparently, there's mostly bullion gold involved, but some pieces that carry premiums. You were addressing the bullion coins, while was addressing the others. And to make it a bit more complicated, currently, many $20 pieces graded 63 and 64 trade at very little, if any premium to melt value whereas in the past, they have traded for premiums that should be included in appraisals.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Yes, I’m the OP, and as to "for the common certified libs and SGs, should I expect an appraisal based solely on gold content, or collector value? All are slabbed PCGS or NGC, most ms63-64, one Wells Fargo $20 in ms66." As a serious collector of early type, I’ve ALWAYS considered (rightly or wrongly) generic $20s to be essentially bullion coins, even though some collect them by date, grade etc…. I just didn’t know how an appraiser would value them. But I’ll let the appraiser provide the estimate and the rationale for it.
In reviewing the $20 coins, which are mostly in old blue “series” PCGS holders, some appear to me to be significantly undergraded and stand a good shot for a CAC sticker, but if it’s just bullion, who cares? And why complicate matters? So given all that I’ve decided to just sell ‘em all as-is.
And to add, I’m both the executor and the next of kin, so I’m gathering an appraisal to both set the correct value in the estate documents, and also to establish the “cost basis” against which a later profit (or loss) is measured for tax purposes. While there will be no tax for inheriting the coins, there will be a potential capital gains tax when I subsequently sell them. It’s in my interest for the appraisal to be as high as is reasonable in order to reduce (or eliminate) my tax exposure.
Thanks all!
Good luck.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
If the estate coins are sold within 9 months (possibly even longer) after the date of death, the proceeds can be the estate date of death valuation as well as cost basis of the beneficiary subsequent sale.Highly suggest submitting for possible CAC stickering as soon as possible.
Good answers ! Of course “spot” gold is different depending on what ticker people are looking for and on that date….
Interesting take. I’ll have to bounce this off of my lawyer, I see him on Monday. He’s been pushing me to get the gold appraised. Thank you!
I would value at melt value for bullion gold and 20% under PCGS Price Guide for slabbed coins.
It would be irresponsible to value coins at a particular percentage of any price guide without researching values further.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
currently, many $20 pieces graded 63 and 64 trade at very little, if any premium to melt value whereas in the past, they have traded for premiums that should be included in appraisals.
Do CACs & CACGs add any value? Does Heritage make a market in them?
In many cases, yes to added value, but it’s quite small for common dates in those grades. And yes to Heritage making markets.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I think that's a little harsh as a general comment. It would be irresponsible to pay $100 per hour or more for a more detailed appraisal of coins that may not have significant value. I've had lawyers bring desk drawers full of pocket change for appraisal. If you have a bunch of generic widgets in an estate, the fair thing to do is to simply put a flat percentage of grey sheet into the estate appraisal. It is not a purchase offer and adds no value to the coins to spend hours of research. The lawyer and executor want to pad the total if they are getting a percentage, but the heir is just throwing money away.
Of course, the type and value of the coins should dictate the amount of research/time spent in an appraisal. However, the post to which I replied a little bit harshly
made reference to "slabbed coins", not pocket change. Still, in hindsight, while his comment was overly broad, so was my response.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Someone is going to pay taxes on the appraisal!
When they go to sell the coins, the taxes are already paid thru the estate.
As an example, if the appraisal was #10,000.00 and they get $9,000.00 someone be unhappy will!
For small estates, there won't be any taxes in most states.
Not likely to be any question of the values unless the estate is quite large. Most states have no state estate tax and even NY (probably the most burdensome) the tax only starts at $6 million. The Federal estate tax is more than double that number.
APMEX has a "sell to us" form that you can fill out and list the assets and they get back to you in a day or two. I would say just fill that out and use their offer as the value or as a sanity check against the appraisal you are getting form someone else.
http://ProofCollection.Net