Wax pack damaged at PSA and they blamed me with a low grade.
SterlingAug
Posts: 29 ✭✭
I had a 1956 Topps 1cent wax pack that I bought in 1991 from the #2 unopened dealer in the USA at the time (The Baseball Card Kid). I decided to send it into PSA for grading since it was a gorgeous pack with perfectly sealed flaps and a completely intact piece of gum. The intake photos from PSA showed the pack was still in perfect shape. I then waited for 8 weeks while the pack was going thru the grading process. When it was completed I was shocked to see that the pack got an N5 Altered Stock grade. When I got the pack back, I saw why. I immediately took photos to prove that the pack was damaged at the PSA 3rd party authentication service who then assigned the low grade so I took the blame. The pack now has multiple tears from the piece of gum that is now shattered into hundreds of pieces. I sent a complaint into PSA but have not gotten any resolution. I have attached the before and after photos for comparison.
Comments
I kicker is that I was charged $173 for the grading service and the pack was damaged by PSA and not even slabbed.
Truly horrible this has occurred to you.
The reminder of this post does not help with your situation, but I feel I do need to say it anyhow.
Many stories like yours over the past 4 years is the sole reason I do not submit my packs although I do have a large amount of 1964-1971 Non Sports, including some rare stuff that I want have Auth/Graded/Slabbed.
All my packs were purchased during my youth in the 1990's. Couple those memories with the scarcity of some of my Non Sports packs and to me they are 100% irreplaceable. Therefore I will not take my chances on handing over to the under-payed + worked to death, thus uncaring folks at PSA.
Vintage 1950's, 1960, 1970's Packs require kind gentle care throughout the entire authentication and grading process for more so than single Cards in Card Savers.. For what PSA Charges for packs now IMHO they should at least provide improved safety and quality control for their customers. As for reason they don't; file under "Its good to be the king"
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Mine got pokes too. I complained and they wanted me to send it back?!
I said no thanks
The worst picture of my pack is IMGS_0300.jpg
the before picture.
I am so sick that this happened to you. I too will never submit my many beautiful unopened packs to PSA for exactly this reason. That 1956 penny pack was so beautiful and they have ruined it. No financial compensation they might give you changes that reality.
It didn't get a "low" grade, it got no grade. Unfortunately the before pics are yours and not PSA's like when they pre-scan cards (do they pre-scan packs?). Also, it is very common for gum to slide around during transport and shoot out the sides of packs, especially older ones where the wax paper has weakened over time. As well the gum can shatter. So it is possible this is how the pack showed up to PSA... How did you pack it? Need to pack these things tight in bubble wrap so the gum doesn't move.
Dude said... "The intake photos from PSA showed the pack was still in perfect shape."
PSA has been damaging a lot of items in my subs lately and from what I've been hearing from others I'm not alone. I do fully support immobilizing the gum when shipping but it sounds like this wasn't the issue here. You'll have to open a CRC case to get this resolved. The good news is the CRC specialists are pretty easy to work with.
Agreed. Makes me wanna cry. They seem to be treating people's precious vintage items like hot potatoes. And they just drop-kick them. So sorry.
Always in the market for game used kinesiology tape and smelly socks.
My bad, I even saw that but mentally canceled it out when I saw before and after photos and took photos of damage. He didn't post the PSA pics (or is that how they look, figured they were OP's pics). But if true, this should be a really easy CRC case. Looking forward to the result.
This is the intake photo from PSA.
PSA supposedly opened a CRC case over a week ago and I haven’t heard any updates yet.
@RufussCkingston you could have almost driven a tank over the package when I sent it to PSA. I had so much bubblewrap and tape holding everything. The photo 8904380.jpeg posted above is the intake photo saved directly from my PSA completed order.
Did you or did "PSA" (phone agent?) open the case. Speculating on the number of CRC requests they get per day, I'd give it 2 weeks before sounding the alarm.
Now if you weren't the one to open the CRC and don't have an email saying one was opened for you, I'd log into your account and select Request Center and open another one. Upload your intake pic and the returned pic.
WOW -- that is horrific. PSA needs to make this right. I bet 4 never has this happen to them.
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Guaranteed it got shredded on the way to Steve... at that point it was in a bubble sleeve with a cardsaver, going from Cali to Indiana. I'll only send packs with whole pieces of gum if it's sliding around... still suseptible to rips and pokes, but usually won't get shredded.
I thought they now send steve to CA once a month instead of sending the packs to him?
I have no clue but thought that was said on here before.
No, they ship to Steve.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I still hear crickets!
Something I will never understand. PSA upcharges for cards/packs that end up being worth more due to hitting a great grade. Okay, clear on that. However, they do not "downcharge" for the opposite such as the OP's situation.
Money is one part of this equation. But to me the worst part is that a service designed to identify and protect high grade items is destroying them. This pack survived in immaculate condition for 68 years and now it is ruined. It would have been better off sitting in a drawer somewhere.
So sad to hear this. I just checked eBay and there is only one pack graded PSA 7 for sale right now (eBay item number:225805870136). That seller (not me) is asking $12,995 for it and the listing currently has 39 watchers. I don't know how PSA can compensate you for their damage, but it should be in the area of 12 grand. Maybe they should take the card out of the damaged pack and automatically grade it PSA10. That way you can sell it and get some compensation back for your loss.
From the pics the pack originally looked like an 8 minimum and a plausible 9 - and PSA treated what was a museum piece worse than if it was 90 Fleer.
As much as i want them in the nice PSA pack slabs, I'll keep my Mid non-sports 60's Wax and early 70's Baseball cellos in my flat file cabinets drawers thank you very much.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
You and me both!
Sweet post. exactly, its supposed to be because of the shipping (insurance) I assume (at least supposedly). If you say it's worth $5,000 and they grade it and it comes out worth $500, why wouldn't they downcharge the order. 100% right on.
I had asked in a different thread whether people thought it was legitimate to charge based on value and the sentiment seemed to be that it was valid. What does it even mean if they're providing better service at the higher service levels? Does not compute.
What I also find interesting about the PSA rates is compare them to the PCGS coin prices. They say its bc of insurance right?
For a 100,000.00 card value they charge (((2,999.00 to grade))) walk through to grade.
But for a coin
For a 100,000.00 coin value they charge (((150.00 to grade))) walk through to grade.
That's a pretty big gap for the same insurance value!
Same company, same amount of time, and same value.
WTH!
I hope I dont make the coin guys mad by bringing this to light. Im guessing they are now going to raise the coin rates after I wrote this.
They charge what they can, and the service provided is what people will put up with. I don’t grade with PSA anymore because I think the model is ridiculous, and insulting to the submitter. I’m clearly in the minority and most people don’t care enough to not submit.
So we get what we deserve (not the above, that is egregious and should result in a payout).
Since each service level has a quicker turn time, why would they ever downcharge someone? Wouldn't everyone send their cards in at a higher level to get them back quicker, if they knew a downcharge was coming? The better question is why people choose higher service levels based on a card grading a 9 or 10? If your card isn't worth $5K in a PSA 5/6... don't use Super Express.
In this case, I'm on the fence if they should make a payout. It is incredibly difficult to pack a wax pack in a manner that makes loose gum immobile. To expect them to pay out for every gum poke/tear that occurs in pack grading is pretty absurd and definitely doesn't make "business" sense... it's the nature of the beast. Even if they ever fix their wax pack holders, I'll never send in a wax pack that has broken gum pieces sliding around for this very reason.
The gum in my 1956 wax pack was 100% intact and one piece. It was still intact when PSA got my package becaause the photos showed the wrapper in the same condition as the photos I took before I sent it in. When it cam back to me not slabbed, the gum was shattered into hundreds of pieces and the pack had numerous tears as shown in the photos.
Understood, my point was just gum tears in general being more a risk of the process. I still say the damage happened in transit to (or from) Steve since the pack was fine in the First View scans and wasn't fine by the time the Assembly stage came. Could be the couriers fault. Sometimes PSA can do everything "right" and gum tears still occur. I just don't put it on PSA as much as I do when they cram a wax pack in the holder so hard that it ruins the wrapper or pops the seal... that is 100% on PSA (and the sole reason I won't send wax packs in any longer).
If tears to a wax pack are an unavoidable part of the process, they should stop grading wax packs. I mean, it’s got to be kind of embarrassing to have dozens of wax packs graded PSA 9 out there that are torn to shreds.
And short of that, everybody should simply stop submitting them. 🤷♂️
Sounds a little like playing Russian roulette.
But instead of only having one bullet in the 6 cylinders, there are bullets in every cylinder so there is a click-boom with every trigger pull.
I also have refrained from sending regular sized packs. I did, just recently, send some 75 minis and tight cellos, but nothing else because I have seen horror stories of damaging regular sized packs. I'm so sorry this happened to you. They need to go back to the older shells that allowed more room, but kept the pack in place. No excuse.
I would say tears are possible but certainly not unavoidable. The majority of wax packs I've submitted have come back perfectly fine but it takes only one or two damaged packs to leave a bad taste in your mouth. Also, it should be noted that cello packs don't have any issues.
Unfortunately, too, if you (or your heirs) ever plan on selling your packs, the only way to attain market value is to get them graded, especially vintage wax which is often tampered with.
I'd say the only way to help prevent tears in transit (and many tears occur post holdering, too) is to redesign a holder with a soft plastic insert in at least the well which would apply gentle pressure to the pack and effectively immobilize any loose sticks of gum which otherwise act like razor blade shards when sliding around inside the pack.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Posted today in; https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1111798/would-you-get-these-packs-graded#latest
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
I've sold a number of items to BBCE over the years and it's always been a smooth transaction when I have, but BBCE is a business so you won't get retail value when doing so. If you are good with that (as I have been in the past, on occasion, as well), that's fine, too.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Like Tim said, not unavoidable but the risk is definitely always present. Even a well stuck, whole piece of gum can shatter and/or become dislodged the way they throw boxes around and load pallets onto those courier trailers. I definitely wouldn't send in wax packs if you despise gum pokes.
What is 100% unavoidable and what PSA should be embarrassed about is the damage they are doing to wax packs by cramming them into the holders. I'd much rather have a PSA 9 pack with gum tears than a PSA 9 pack that looks like this...
True. But I’d rather not have a PSA 9 pack with either of these issues, as neither reasonably deserves to be called Mint condition.
PSA should consider having higher level packs stay where they are at and see if Steve could fly out once a month or once every 2 months. I know for the cheap stuff I send in (Under $20) I leave a note to leave them in the bubble slip-in envelopes. I dont need pictures. All the submissions I've had hasn't had them and I personally could care less. The less handled the better.
I understand the gum poking through is a risk and everyone should consider that. As for the pack cramming, Donruss packs are way more loose wraps and that is the result. That's why I dont even send them in.
If they don't treat a$1,000.00 (or higher) card and differently than $10.00 card there's no reason, other than for insurance, to charge more to grade it.
Got a back order back the other day for a 1989 Fleer Cello. I will try and post a clip later, but cellos are in a 2-piece holder that get glued however, they never glued mine. The 2 pieces just pull apart smh
I am unable to load. If someone with more computer knowledge wants to DM me there email, I'll send the video to have you upload
Agreed. Donruss wax packs are notoriously bad as they are slightly larger than Topps packs and will not properly fit within the well. In some cases, OPC packs will fall into this category, as well, when the wrapper "billows" a bit on the sides.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Boy, that’s a real shot at 90 Fleer out of nowhere Mr. Clavin.
IMHO 90 Fleer regardless of Sport is the poster child for massively overproduced junk wax. It's the Junk Waxes, Junk Wax
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)