Rules for Restrikes of Uber-Rares
jmm2562
Posts: 30 ✭
Happy Monday to All!
In posting a restrike of Confederate Half Dollar 1861-O (US obverse / Confederate reverse) on ebay, I found that some advertised restrikes do not have the "COPY" text somewhere on the coin. I had thought that was a requirement. What are the rules for restrikes? Assuming COPY is required, how can they get away with it?
For your entertainment, here is the restrike I'm trying to post. I is attached to the (original) information flyer / COA...
NOTE: Coin in cloudy plastic
One example of an ebay listing without an obvious COPY on it...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/176254687643
Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
Jim (jmm2562)
0
Comments
Flagged (wrong forum)
Um... can you suggest the right forum? This post was about US currency restrikes but more generally about global restrikes policy. Is there a better forum for this discussion?
Also, how do I MOVE the discussion to the right forum? Is there a better way than copy paste al text/image? Thanks!
I have moved it to the correct forum for you
For future reference, the U.S. and World Currency forum is meant for paper money while coins have their own forums.
Abby Zechman
PCGS Education Coordinator
Certainly not a rare restrike.
Look up the Hobby Protection Act for details
There is no "global" policy
The HPA was not retroactive. Only replicas made after the law was enacted would be covered.
Now, I have little doubt that the unmarked replica you linked to is a modern replica, but someone would have to prove it. Furthermore, it's being sold as a replica so the intent is not fraudulent.
Lastly, in case you haven't noticed, ebay is flooded with fakes of every kind. It isn't news. Clearly law enforcement has other priorities.
Ah right, misplaced modifier. I meant restrikes of uber rare originals.
Thanks, that is great to know. I will have to read through the docs to get the full scoop.
Yes, in this case it's pretty obvious with only 4 originals. But if there were a few hundred originals minted, it would be easier to pass off a fake restrike with no "COPY".
I'm downsizing my collection and really not buying anything at the moment. When that changes, I will have to be super vigilant on anything near high value.
I wonder if there are fake PCGS/NGC slabs out there. It was designed to increase confidence in authenticity. But if it can be compromised, we're out of luck.
In addition to these points there is also no need to include "COPY" on coins that weren't officially released by the US (such as your confederate half dollar replica.)
If you look at some of the great work done by @dcarr you'll see he's struck many "fantasy coins" that are nearly indistinguishable from real coins without having to include "COPY" on them since he's not trying to pass them off as money. Even if he was nobody makes purchases with older coins. I'm sure he'd be happy to answer any questions about it you have if he's not too busy.
A key point to DCarr's fantasy-date products is that they are overstruck on real coins. So, they are essentially alterations to genuine coins, which is legal absent fraudulent intent.
In the United States, the Hobby Protection Act of 1973 prohibits the importation, manufacture and marketing of unmarked "imitation numismatic items". "Numismatic item" is very broadly defined; it is not restricted to US legal tender coinage. Ancient and foreign coins are included. Indeed, one of the primary targets of the original 1973 Act was Peter Rosa, who was mass-producing and mass-marketing (through advertisements in coin magazines) unmarked replica ancient coins. A replica Confederate coin certainly falls under the definition.
Obviously, any replicas manufactured prior to 1973 are unlikely to have COPY stamped on them. Also note that owning a replica isn't illegal - it's just the selling of it that's illegal. Whether there is disclosure from the seller that it is a replica or not, is irrelevant. If you want to sell it legally, and it's not already stamped COPY, you are supposed to arrange to have COPY stamped onto it.
EBay is a law unto itself. It is eBay's policy to prohibit replicas and counterfeits completely from being sold through eBay. No exceptions. It does not matter if COPY is stamped onto it or not, selling such items on eBay is against eBay policy. And it does not matter where in the world such items are being sold from; the policy is global. So, that listing above is in plainly and clearly in violation of eBay's policy and should be taken down if reported.
There are so many such listings visible on eBay at any one time, because no-one has the kind of time to report them all. And these days, eBay's roboticized reporting process is also notoriously generous in not taking down clear and blatant violations.
Finally of course we have the Chinese fake-factories. Listings for Chinese fakes often prominently show the word COPY - sometimes clearly photoshopped onto the image - but the actual coins you actually receive from such sales are usually unmarked. Be aware that, if you are the one ordering an unmarked replica coin direct from China, you are the one doing the importing and therefore are in violation of US law.
That's a silly question - of course there are fake slabs out there. You can find dozens of threads about them right here on the forum. The Chinese fake-factories are mass-producing high-quality fake coins. For such an outfit, making a fake piece of plastic with a fake hologram in it would be a breeze. Fake slabs, like fake coins themselves, come in a broad spectrum of believability, from "ludicrously and obviously fake" to "I can't believe that's not real". Your only hope of having any assurance that any slab is genuine is if you do your due diligence, ignore the slab and and check the coin in the slab against the TPG's image database. Making a fake coin in a fake slab with a genuine-looking certificate number is relatively easy; making a fake pattern of wear and toning that exactly matches the original slabbed coin in the database - or hacking into the database to change the database image to match their fakes - is orders of magnitude more difficult, and is something most fake-factories don't bother doing.
Most fake-makers don't need to go to that length of detail. They're not trying to fool everybody forever, they're trying to fool one person, once. And most collectors don't bother doing due diligence until it's too late and the counterfeiter has pocketed your money.
Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius, "Meditations"
Apparently I have been awarded one DPOTD.
The obverse is terribly horrible.
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