PSA Changes Official criteria in Grading Scale for PSA 10 UPDATE: And Other Grades
brad31
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Statement is a screenshot from Neo Cards and Comics video.
Front centering on PSA 10 has been changed.
Is this just the first change or are they going to make tightening of standards official elsewhere?
There was no announcement of change someone just noticed it on their website.
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I think the inherent expectation on a 10 should be that it features perceptibly perfect centering. A card with framing that's measurably off center shouldn't be classified as perfect.
All is fair in love and war and third party grading.
So, basically the standard is 55/45 unless we don't want it to be...
Clears that right up.
On the transparency... Not so great. Maybe make an announcement and spin it as "clarifying existing grading standards".
As to what it means... I'm not sure it means much. It was 60/40 and it still might be on the low end, but there's a chance that the majority of 60/40 cards are not so perfect in every other way that they elevate to a 10. I think it's a branding and communication mistake that they are not presenting this as "setting proper expectations".
As a defense mechanism, it will work for them.
Me: Why did this not receive a 10?!
Them: We've updated the language.
Me: I have some language for you.
Them: click
All is fair in love and war and third party grading.
This is so profoundly ridiculous to me and I dont see myself doing much if any business going forward. What does that even mean? Targeted threshold? If you are Joe Lump from Bratslauff, MS and you submit 15 cards a year our targeted threshold is 55/45. You Mr. Lump get the hanmer. The Blah Blah Blah Sportscards that gives us 30K a year or more, well now we must remind you that we have a target threshold. There are always exceptions. That 59/41 card from Blah Blah Blah, well it does have sharp color, Gem Mint 10. Is that what it means? Have no idea and you could say it doesn't mean anything so they can tap dance around it.
But it all feels like a joke. I can't accept stricter grading standards. There are standards. They are outlined. Subjective in ways outside of centering. Which is what they want to play around with. A standard cant be we want it to be more this now. It makes all the old grading feel meaningless. If your expert opinion shifts is it really an expert opinion? Does it have any value? In 2010 that fruit was an apple. Today we call it a pomegranite. We have redefined fruit. Okay then I dont want your opinion.
I dont want to send them money for whatever their reconsidered opinion of a card is. I think the people on these boards understand what the grade of a card is more than the people we pay money to tell us what the grade is. I am still interested in buying graded cards. But more the recently graded cards with certs that start with 9 or 10 which appear to be undergraded or use harsher standards, Joe Lump's PSA 9s not Blah Blah Blah Sportscards PSA 9s.
Any idea when this was first posted.
This must have something to do with using Ai.
Maybe setting 60/40 was returning false results, so they tightened the Ai threshold.
Then the human element can make a judgement call if it's outside the 55/45 based on eye appeal, and other factors.
I hope that they are using computer vision to improve consistency and provide insight to the graders. Not sure how any artificial intelligence is involved.
It was never posted by PSA. It was a response from PSA to Neo Cards and Comics on his inquiry about the change.
This will help PSA explain insane grades for customers like 4SC. This is the first PSA 10 EVER for this card.
This card was discussed before in a previous thread but it makes sense to post it again. This card was submitted to PSA by 4SC and not a consignment card. There's wear on all four corners plus black smudge on the top right of the card. I have two PSA 8's that blow this card away. The card sold for almost 10K. If it received a PSA 8 the card would sell for less than $50.
Happy Beat A Dead Horse Wednesday.
All is fair in love and war and third party grading.
I’ve seen better.
Forgive the fuzzy image....this is a card I had graded and subsequently sold in the year 2006. It is currently the only PSA 10 ever graded for this card. It sold again in 2011 and hasn't seen the marketplace since then. The reason I posted it is because there is quite obviously a black ink smudge across the bottom on the position and team name STEELERS. Doesn't seem to meet the standard, does it? This flaw is quite common to this card. I have others just as sharp with the same smudge. I wouldn't bother sending them in now. The Mean Joe was just one small part of a large bulk order which made its way effortlessly through the system almost 20 years ago. PSA is and has been notorious for such errors in grading. Always. It's unavoidable. When a card like this enters the marketplace, it's up to buyers to decide its value. Errors are occasional to the business. Umpires miss calls regularly. And referees. Scream at them.
All is fair in love and war and third party grading.
I see this as a nothing burger. Most PSA 10s have very nice centering. These days, that seems to be what gets them in the 10 conversation. The problem seems to be more the acceptance of imperfect corners than imperfect centering.
Evening,
Thank God I quit giving my Money to this Class of Clowns 4 years ago! Good for you, those who want to continue to perpetuate the Myth that PSA has some divinity when it comes to Sports Cards, Yes it does, but just for those who can Pony Up! Think Brett, 4SC, and you know who!
YeeHaw!
Neil
Sweet. When I knew I never had a chance before now I know for sure now.
I don’t see this as big news, was anyone here sending in 40/60 cards expecting 10s today?
I wonder how much money 4SC makes a year with their "nice" grading...it has to be an insane amount
A tenant of Good Business it to keep your largest clients happy. That said it's not like they can realistically go anywhere else! As now the only remotely viable competition is under the same parent company!
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Better corners, no black smudge - you might get an 8 if you submit it to PSA.
Errors occur in grading but giving the first 10 to a card that has wear on EVERY corner, and has a black smudge that is not common with the card, makes PSA look really bad. At least two PSA graders reviewed the card and both decided it was perfect and the best 1979 Eckersley ever submitted to PSA for grading.
I'll send it in and put a request for an 11 in the notes and reference the other cert. These go to eleven right?
Nestle it securely in 1,000 card bulk order. Make sure it has a few accomplices on either side. Oughta work wonders for the wallet.
All is fair in love and war and third party grading.
One thing Nat has openly said in interviews about Ai, is that they currently use software to calculate centering of cards.
And they should. But that’s not AI.
Recently graded. High scrutiny player. POP 12
58/42(?) left/right. 64/36(?) top/bottom. (and Hand cut to that centering)
Eye appeal?
But still...
Thanks Midlife Sports:
PSA 8
PSA 7
I believe this just devalued my cards - particularly the .5 grades. I have 27 PSA 7s, 5 PSA 7.5s, 122 PSA 8s and 93 PSA 8.5s - mostly 50s and 60s. Graig of Mid-life makes a good point on his video - the change comes at the time of the 9 digit serial numbers which will forever make 9 digit serial numbers come at a premium. The flip side is old flips now legitimately may sell for less and since I buy more than sell mat be helpful when adding cards. The fact this was done in stealth is bothersome to me.
Could be. I'd assume they're teaching it the different borders of each issue... for example 1954 Topps with no top border. They should also be using AI to help it learn to identify cards, which would assist in the Research and ID phase of the process.
‘Must be approximately’?
I’m no attorney and didn’t have 8 hours of sleep last night, but that means absolutely nothing.
I’m beginning to understand why Greg Morris is doing some great business.
Agreed. I'm right there with you.
I watched that video. First time I had watched this guy. He made a good point that PSA should list the grade date in the cert info.
Oh, so tired of it, frustrated, disappointed. Standards changing, goal posts moving, old cert vs new cert, my 8 is better than your 8, how did that get a 9 or 10 & did I miss anything? Grading started out as a "good" thing---- keeping dealers in line from charging "high Beckett" value for raw. no matter what. Then, as most things, the focus pivots to the money grab and the so-called collecting fun disappears or turns into an alternate asset with dollars as the primary focus. On a positive note, if you were buying blue-chippers 20-30 years ago...... you're stay way up.
Heres an auction right now from Greg Morris on ebay for a Mantle graded psa 5. If I sent this in I would have gotten a PSA 2 or 3
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/326424002264?mkevt=1&mkpid=2&emsid=e90001.m162139.l174962&plmtId=700008&mesgId=3016&mkcid=8&ch=osgood&bu=44428353610&trkId=974f434d-1a97-3892-bcf7-f70ff651db2d&cnvId=700003&recoId=326424002264&recoPos=1
I don't understand the complaint. A private individual probably sent this card in for grading and subsequently sent it to GMC on consignment. Anyone could have received a PSA 5 on the card, even you. You're conflating the argument that certain submitters get special treatment on large subs vs. just a regular person sending in a few cards. A consignor has no control over how cards get assigned grades, they simply accept them, then sell them.
All is fair in love and war and third party grading.
Agreed, although it is a bit date dependent -- I have a ton of 1958-64 Topps and they are nothing like the cards today. Technology in printing should demand higher standards for more recent cards IMO, not that PSA cares about what I think, or pretty much what anyone else thinks.
TRUTH!
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
100%+
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Gem Mint was not supposed to be perfect. It was just supposed to be Gem Mint. And we knew what that meant. If now they want to change it to mean perfect, to me that is beyond ridiculous. Are they going to back and regrade the millions of PSA 10s they graded when they thought hmmm, today we think this is what a PSA 10 is. In 3 months we may decide as long as you can see the guy's face, PSA 10. That would be excellent for business. More submissions. I cant take anybody seriously who would run a business as a subject matter expert with a shifting opinion. This week cars that wont start still pass inspection.
Talking about "perfect" it sounds like PSA is shooting for a Pristine grade which they have never had. There was a big difference between a BGS 10 Pristine grade and a PSA 10 grade. If they want to make a 10 perfect they should just add a 10+ Pristine grade or something like that. Cant see how this makes any sense.
What is your card graded?
PSA 10?
Which PSA 10?
Oh the old garbage sucky one.
The old flips have sold for less since the graders and grading standards got stricter. The majority of the new flips are grossly under graded.
Take a look at your submissions from 5 to 10 years ago to see for yourself.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
That is the worst PSA 10 I have ever seen.
Its so frustrating for collectors
It sold for almost $10K.
This horrible criminal act has really stolen your mind.
All is fair in love and war and third party grading.
It would be nice if PSA had representatives explain some of their grades on line. Maybe a weekly or biweekly show where they could take questions. I would love them to explain how this card received a 10 which is the only 10 in existence. It would be interesting watching the rep explain how a 10 could have wear on more than one corner plus have a black smudge that is not common for this particular card.
Maybe PSA should update their website to include a PSA 10 can have wear on some or all corners and have a major printing error and still qualify for a 10.
PSA can change all the criteria it wants. I always put a value on the card and not the number associated with it. I always review the card before bidding/buying. Psa 8/9 that should be Psa 6/5 (4 times over the past month).
A PSA YouTube show where they review their own grading, both good and bad, would be fun to watch.
I personally don't think it's that big of a deal... at least the documented change. Any PSA 10 posted on this board that showed 60/40 centering would be ridiculed to shreds. The undocumented change in standards we're all aware of is what is devaluing older slabs... but consistency in grading has and always will be their biggest problem (especially the larger they get).
How many different people have graded cards while employed by PSA? How many different opinions? How many different interpretations, examinations and documentations will it take for anyone to realize that it's been a money grab all along? How we've chosen to play their game during their over 30 years of existence is how we will fondly look back on each of our own legacies.
All is fair in love and war and third party grading.