eBay Card Authentication
cb42
Posts: 34 ✭✭
Hi all. I have never bought a card from eBay, but I am considering it. I noticed that some cards have an "Authentication Guarantee" and that the shipping says "shipping to authenticator, then to you." I looked into this a bit more and I see that the card is sent to PSA for authentication, then to the buyer. No grading is done. According to eBay, the authentication process is "to ensure it matches the listing description and is authentic."
I noticed one card on eBay with the authentication guarentee that is listed as "trimmed Altered." So I assume PSA would inspect the card, note that it is trimmed, conclude that the modification matches the description of the card on eBay, and it would pass the inspection. Is this how you would interpret it?
Does anyone know, does the inspection also take into account the seller's condition description? E.g., suppose a card is described as "Ungraded - Near mint or better." Would PSA fail to authenticate the card if PSA deemed it was not "near mint or better"?
Comments
PSA has nothing to do with eBays authentication process. On cards valued at 200 or more, don't quote me on that, goes to their authentication center and gets authenticated then they ship it to you. It's protection for both you and them.
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
.> @jackstraw said:
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PSA is the authenticator for eBay. All cards that qualify for the AG program go to PSA for inspection / authentication.
And to the OPs question - if the seller described it correctly as "trimmed Altered", then it should pass authentication with no problem. Check what condition the seller noted in the item details as that is what the authentication program usually defers to, rather than what is listed in the description and/or title.
Thanks @SmithAuctionCo. So conversely, I assume PSA would detect that a card was trimmed, and if the eBay listing did not note that fact, the card wouldn't be authenticated? In other words, I'm not sure where authentication begins and ends. A trimmed card may be "authentic," even if it is trimmed, but if the listing does not reveal that fact, it would certainly be misleading and I would hope it would be rejected.
I believe it is $250
I had a raw card purchase kicked back for not matching the listing because the corners were over pressed in an old screw down holder. I was disappointed, but having that feature available saved me from owning and subbing a card in the future which may not have been assigned a grade. The "authenticator" is in Santa Ana, pretty sure there's a relationship with PSA.
Bundalay, sahvay.
For those wondering, here is the eBay explanation of its authentication process, which shows that PSA is used for authentication.
https://www.ebay.com/authenticity-guarantee/tradingcards
It's making sure the slab is not fake/tampered and that what is pictured in the listing is what is actually shipped, so you don't get a pokemon card when you bought a 52 mantle!
It's a little different for raw cards, but similar.
I tested it once buying a reprint Pete rose 1964 rookie cup in a trading card slab. The listing did not say reprint. This was at the time they were using the term “retro” to get around the ebay rules. However in this listing they put it as original 1964 topps in the listing details. It sailed right through eBay auth.
When I got it I destroyed the card and sent a picture to probstein and then opened a fraud claim with American Express and PayPal. They both fought over who would give me my money back quickest and PayPal won. I didn’t even bother with eBay.
Satisfying. I don’t know if anything came of it but Amex can be pretty brutal. That was my lone test of the eBay authenticity guarantee and I didn’t find it to be accurate to their terms.
Well, that is not encouraging. How did you know it was a fake from the eBay listing?
It’s not a licensed reprint so there’s nothing on the card but it looks fake and there’s no 64 that looks like that.
I like how the seller went straight for the GEM MT 10. I guess if you're going to fake it, you might as well go all the way. :-)
The slab was legit. That is an autograph grade and it was in the PSA database. They just did not have the card graded.
The seller was the never shady probstein and they’re always trying to dupe people and see what they can get away with.
I didn't know that name, but I do now. :-)
smart to use Amex w/Paypal! Amex simply does not care how much business the guy in NJ does with eBay who seemingly lets him get away with everything!
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Maybe I’m missing something… the slab and auto were legit and labeled as just a “Card”, not a specific manufacturer, year, etc. So PSA did their job with the original auth and grading. The eBay seller, though, described the card incorrectly and the authenticators let it through. So you destroyed a legit Rose autograph that you presumably paid more than $200 or $250 for, you were that confident in being able to describe the seller’s fraud to get your money back? I’m not sure I’d have been that confident in Amex or PayPal agreeing with me and refunding… I’d have waited on destroying it until AFTER getting my refund. But that’s just me
Jim
I think there was a bidding war. I had put like $500 on it and I got a notification with a few seconds and was able to get a $600 bid in and win for $508.
I was very confident because the listing details identified it as an original Topps 1964 Pete Rose.
The guarantee is supposed to verify that the item is what is being sold in the listing. It doesn’t do a very good job in my opinion. It’s still better than nothing.
Here is the purchase. I had reported them to eBay for doing this about 5 times at this point. eBay was doing nothing even though probstein was violating eBay rules by listing the item as an authentic 1964 Topps and not a reprint. It seemed to only be Probstein who I couldn’t get a listing removed for this. So I decided to try something new but it was tough to win that auction for a card maybe worth $60.
Reprint cards will be the downfall of the hobby.
I think it was proper that this card got passed through... A graded card listing for the most part is for the slab that is pictured in the listing, and the "descriptions" are just fluff as the flip speaks for itself. Now if the title was totally different from the slab pictured (probably do to a listing error), then I could see it getting caught by eBay Auth. But if the slab matches the picture, isn't damaged or tampered, and isn't a fake slab, then it passes. eBay auth is NOT reading descriptions. Just like most buyers don't read descriptions on graded cards, they look at the photos. Not like the description is going to change the slab.
You're lucky you got your money back and I assume that the seller still got paid since it rightfully passed. It was not an authenticated card, just an authenticated auto on a "card" and it says that right there on the flip. The dude is dead and you destroyed one of his last john hancocks in a defective experiment.
You didn’t do a very good job understanding all of the details here.
Your typical bluster isn’t appropriate here. The concept that I was in some way “lucky” is incorrectly assumed.
You might be right. I didn't care because I read the guarantee before doing this. They say they ARE reading descriptions.
https://pages.ebay.com/authenticity-guarantee-tradingcards-seller/
This is ridiculously impertinent, but great anecdote.
Thanks for sharing your opinion on this. You're not hired.
It does. CARD, TRADING CARD. I know. I also already mentioned this, so it was previously documented that I knew. I did not like that Probstein was listing in the details on the card that it was an Original 1964 Topps Pete Rose. Hope that's clear, but if not... try turning it off and back on again. Is an unlicensed reprint consistent with a 1964 Topps Pete Rose? If you think so... try unplugging it and plugging it back in.
In July of 2024 he was still alive. He died in September. He is also widely acknowledged to have signed more memorabilia than ANY OTHER HUMAN EVER. I have real Pete Rose cards, including some of his 63 Topps, signed and slabbed.
This implies things that are not true.
I was very confident that PayPal, Amex, or both would be willing to refund. I was trying to promote some change so that people don't get taken advantage of and I didn't see this as risky to destroy the card and file a claim. This isn't the first time I've done this. There was one which was an $11K card and that one I admit felt like a risk, but I ended up coming out unscathed.
I already thought you were a bit of a ding dong, but now my heads spinnin'.
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No joke. Pretty soon someone is going to invest some money into forgeries which can elude the grading companies. I have a pretty limited understanding of document forgery from the perspective of recreating the paper, but even I know that one of the methods for recreating the stock would be to just use cards from that release. Remove the ink. Then they do something and then they do something and maybe you end up with butter... This is where it gets fuzzy for me. Maybe it's not possible, but that's my biggest concern with regard to how much value I have in sports cards these days. That someone is going to undermine the entire aspect of authenticity of the hobby. If trimming was bad, this would be?
It says CARD and not TRADING CARD because it was not a real authorized (or at least what they can tell with out authenticating it). It is just saying the item is an autographed card, which it is. The piece of paper was in the form of a card, in this case a "1964 retro" card per se! I feel you expect eBay authentication to protect people when they don't know what they are buying (in this case because they don't know how to read a flip and are relying on the eBay listing description)
You never posted a pic of the item description (and it's possible that eBay only means the pull down stuff where you list the Grade, Grading Company, and that other crap, I still don't see them bothering with the free-text fluff) I'm just stressing that this listing was a poor example to "test" the eBay authorization process to come out with a carte blanche theory about it....
And I was joking about you destroying one of his last auto's!
eBay authorization process does the card but doesn't authenticate or verify the autograph on the card. In regard to the autograph, the process is useless.
The autograph was authenticated by PSA so the validation that the slab was authentic was enough for that. In this case the card was not graded so it was unclear. The CARD or TRADING CARD was used by PSA to indicate that the card had not been authenticated, which is also available online when looking up the cert.
This was not free form text in the description that I was concerned about. This was the item details. The seller had explicitly selected Original, Topps, 1964. These were selected instead of Reprint, Unknown Printer, Past 20 Years. This was the deceitful part.
If they didn’t say it was these things I wouldn’t have any issue with Probsteins listing.
I do think that PSA has to also do more to make it clear. They can’t just say “we don’t grade the card”. They have made some improvements in this regard since this particular listing.
As far as my “carte blanche” theory here you’ll have to tell me what that is. I don’t even understand what you mean by that. I was testing whether the eBay authenticity guarantee protected buyers purchasing an item which was misrepresented in the listing details. Unfortunately the details and description are no longer available as the auction is too old. I’ll see if I have a picture. For my part this was all done in a few days and I didn’t think about it until I saw this post and thought it might provide someone insight on what they need to look out for with regard to the guarantee.
Not sure if it still happens, but there was a time where ebay would auto-populate a lot of those detail fields (might be based on settings), plus probably also could happen by reusing a listing. Who actually looks at the "details" on a graded card? The details are on the flip!
The label, from that PSA era, stating TRADING CARD or CARD, doesn't indicate whether the card is fake or real. If that card was graded today, a red label would state 'REPRINT'. The Listing Details are pretty important when you're buying cards, especially raw, with respect to your protection as a buyer on eBay. Perhaps I'm the only person who ever looks at an autographed card which was slabbed with an auto-grade-only and wonders if it's real or fake. When I do, I will look at the listing title, the listing details, and the item description in that order. Then, depending on the slab, I might look it up, but admittedly I really only do that with PSA slabs.
I do this because I like to see whether they are listing it as an original or as a reprint. If they have listed it as an original, I know I can get covered by eBay if it turns out to be a reprint (licensed or not).
I am struggling to understand why you would prefer the ambiguity. I think this confuses a lot of people new to the hobby. I wanted to see whether the Auth. Guarantee would do what it says. I think it's certainly better than nothing, it helps, I know people who it's helped, I've been helped, it's good. Not perfect. Only providing information because the OP asked.
For a raw card, I total agree about all the details. But we are talking about a graded/slabed item, thus the flip (the "official" description) is what should govern, for the most part. I get wondering if an auto-grade only slab is of a "real" card, but you don't get that type of protection per se, because that isn't what is for sale. The Flip is essentially what is for sale. Even if it was obvious one way or another, a true determination can't be made while the item is slabbed, and the eBay Auth Guarantee isn't for the purpose of "further" authentication. In that sense your experiment proved that.
That is why whenever I buy PSA/DNA auto graded cards I make sure the label has the actual year and make of the card "1961 Topps" instead of "Trading card". Then there is no doubt the card is legit.
Defending the NJ dealer in question in any way shape or form is simply not the hill to die on.
You can be sure that dealer crafted the auction to be misleading to reel in some sucker. It's simply the way that dealer conducts business by default and eBay seemingly has never had a care as long as their percentages from him keep rolling in.
Remember when I provided a link to the eBay auth guarantee talking about how they verify the details? Those were the days.
Regarding whether or not a true determination can be made the guarantee says what it says. Also. You can send in slabbed cards for review and/or crossover and specify a min grade. This min grade can be authentic where they only assert that the item is real or not. So, again, whether they can, they think they can.
I don’t know what point you’re trying to make anymore. I’m stupid, eBay is stupid, cats have fur. This seems like one of those situations where you sat down at the wrong table. My advice. Tell a funny story and excuse yourself.
As for the Pete Rose card in this thread, I don't think I have ever seen Probstein fill in any listing details besides Condition, Sport, Type, Grader, and Grade. It would be an anomaly for them to fill in the actual set details. They do it intentionally to save time and most likely to circumvent any issues with the AG program.
At any rate, if the set details were actually filled in that situation, there would be a valid reason for a return through the AG program as the "item was not as described". Why not just open a return?
I have had a few hundred cards go through eBay Authentication as a buyer and seller with only one issue. The issue was a PSA 8 graded 1996 Topps Stars Michael Jordan 1985 Star Reprint Refractor was rejected by eBay's authentication due to it being a "reprint". Even though it is an official "reprint" insert issued by Topps, the "authenticator" went by their checklist and deemed it not passable due to being a "reprint".
I inquired with eBay about it and they got me in contact with the authentication department who agreed that it should have passed, and whoever looked at it got it wrong. After all, it was a freshly graded card by PSA and listed with all the correct details. But, evidently the word "reprint" even if part of the official title of the set given by Topps, can get a card rejected by eBay's AG program if the person looking at it does not understand there are official "reprints" issued.
The actual return would be made through the eBay Money-back guarantee program in this case. I could have opened a return with eBay and I would likely have been able to return it as the listing details did not match. The listing details stated '1964', 'Topps', 'Original'. Regarding the money back guarantee, and with respect to other points being made here, I think the buyer might not have the experience to correctly evaluate whether a card is fake or not without sending them for authentication themselves before they could then have the information necessary to dispute the legitimacy of the listing.
In case you missed it, I was trying to determine how well the Auth. Guarantee actually worked. That is why I bought it with very high confidence that the card was a reprint.
I have had only a couple issues with the eBay authenticity program so far. They have all worked out in my favor. Operate as a legit seller and you really have no issues. I am in no way saying that a reprint card in a slab can not or should not pass the authenticity guarantee. I was only focused on whether a seller is allowed to mislead a buyer and whether the AG protects us as buyers.
Perhaps I'm the only one who had this question and went to look at how the AG is expected to work. I might also be the only one who read the FAQ on that page. This isn't a statement of what's right and what's wrong. I could weigh in, but I don't here. This is just information with an example.
You mean you only buy dual graded cards!
So this one time at band camp......