Physical unfunded gold bitcoin sold higher than funded virtual bitcoin
jt88
Posts: 3,067 ✭✭✭✭✭
This unfunded physical gold bitcoin sold 168k in ha auction today. 3 times higher than August 2024.
0
Comments
Wrong forum for this thread in my opinion.
Why? That is an actual token.
These are 1000 BTC. Great price but not more than 1000 BTCs
This is an interesting “gray” area I think. By definition this is a token for sure and I do think it’s the right forum though I would say I think there will be a lot of disagreements over why the value is what it is. I certainly don’t see the value being that level to me, but I guess I could say that for a lot of things. The question is, is it numismatics? I think by nature it is, though its value may or may not be numismatically important.
With that said, I also see the prices for the new mint 1794 product sales prices which to me also don’t make a lot of sense in the numismatic realm. But I do understand from a certain perspective why they would have strong demand, which I guess also gives some justification for these results.
But it's a world cryptocurrency token, not US Coin. I feel it belongs in World & Ancient Coins or Precious Metals Forum not here.
Maybe the OP and all that agree it is worth discussing should petition the Mods to create a Cryptocurrency forum.🤔
Folks it is not too late to reconsider your position/opinion on physical bitcoin now. It is a big growing area especially for those make from gold or silver with nice design limited mintage coins. In the next couple decades the price will be a lot higher.
Ok, now I see. With that said, not appropriate for the forum. This is not crypto but a “coin” related to crypto which makes it a token! From a numismatic standpoint it’s a token. It has no crypto value whatsoever.
tokens and medals belong in here despite the lone word coins.
the world ... means not us items. a bitcoin token belongs to no country. it is neither france's, japan's nor the usa's.
despite there being no fit, the country issue is no big deal and not worth it to make a crypto forum that would be rarely used
it seems you feel strongly on the issue. feel free to contact pcgs over this conundrum
it seems it could also go into world... if someone posts it there, no big deal
I find that incredibly cool for a collectible token. If it hadn't been redeemed it would be worth over 100m dollars.
oh, the regrets
Bitcoin doesn't "belong" to a single county....however where this was minted is a US based company.
.....Issued on a 25mm planchet of ¼ ounce of .999 fine silver and minted by Northwest Territorial Mint, the obverse features a holographic sticker with the serial number at left and the public address visible through a rectangular window......
My quick search shows Northwest Territorial Mint is US based, however I could not find if they actually minted in the US or not. Assuming its minted in the US, I think it would belong here.
Successful transactions with forum members commoncents05, dmarks, Coinscratch, Bullsitter, DCW, TwoSides2aCoin, Namvet69 (facilitated for 3rd party), Tetromibi, ProfLizMay, MASSU2, MWallace, Bruce7789, Twobitcollector, 78saen, U1chicago, Rob41281
My reference - https://www.coinbooks.org/v24/esylum_v24n41a12.html
Successful transactions with forum members commoncents05, dmarks, Coinscratch, Bullsitter, DCW, TwoSides2aCoin, Namvet69 (facilitated for 3rd party), Tetromibi, ProfLizMay, MASSU2, MWallace, Bruce7789, Twobitcollector, 78saen, U1chicago, Rob41281
good check, jshaulis
I really don't feel strongly about it either way. JM tagged my intial post and at least 4 others agreed with him so I posted my clarification.😎
Personally, I think the Mods should create a Cryptocurrency forum like they have for Precious Metals.😉
Ponzi scheme (not a popular idea right now, but one that will be proven right, in time).
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
I'd probably be 4x-5x higher if you sent it to cacs for one of those silly stickers. RGDS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
It will not surprise me if this coin sell for 500k in the next couple years. It is limited mintage and high denomination with significant historical value. Smithsonian might even want to put it in its collection.
You could say that about everything from the stock market to the US dollar to gold and silver. Wait long enough and they all collapse.
Are all of those based on the "greater fool" theory?
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
Possibly. But they are all based on demand and, to varying degrees, hype.
If you take the name off them, which would you rather own:
All of those assets i listed have some utility. However they all have some of their value that is tied to a variety of extrinsic measures including hype. Why has the PE of the S&P swelled? How much of the value of gold is simply tied to history and emotion?
Personally, I don't have an issue with any of the Asset classes and consider them all capable of dropping to zero. As much as I'd like to argue with the various markets and call them irrational, that is a (greater) Fool's Errand. The market is what it is and my crystal ball is forever broken.
I'll be the first to admit I don't "get" crypto. Why bitcoin, which is a digital nothing, is worth more than etherium, another digital nothing, and any meme stock or crypto or whatever we are calling it today. Because it isn't currency despite the name. It's all speculation. People buy it because they think they can offload it at a higher price in the future. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that if it's your bag, but it's not mine. Eerily familiar to a pyramid scheme for my taste.
Not to get political, but Trump apparently made his own digital currency the other day, $Trump or whatever. Melania followed with $Melania. How? Why? What is behind any of this except hype? Can I cash them out at the White House? Am I supposed to show someone my computer screen that says I have these "coins?"
This is getting ridiculous.
To keep on topic, physical Bitcoin is a literal oxymoron. Collect what you like, but again, thinking these will be hundreds of thousands of dollars for their collector appeal is ludicrous. They look like arcade tokens, and the funded BTC "value" is gone. So you are left with the precious metal content and that is about $600 of gold? These "historical" pieces from wayyyy back in 2012 are supposed be collectibles now.
I'm trying to have an open mind, really. I see from the OP that there is definitely a market for them (now.) But in the future, are coin collectors really going to want these trinkets? How are NFTs holding up?
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
Supply/demand. There's 20 or less of some of those tokens. Imagine if BTC continues to be a medium of exchange 50 years from now, why wouldn't the collector value of ac rate historical artifacts be significant?
>
There are tons of privately issued coins from over the last several hundred years which are worth serious money. Even if bitcoin goes to zero this is an incredibly rare and historic piece. You also have to consider who will be the target market for this in the future...
I am a pretty serious collector of tokens, myself. To my knowledge, the highest price ever paid for a Civil War token is $20,000 back in 2004. That being the iconic running dogs piece from Rhode Island, slabbed NGC MS66RD.
It resold some ten years later for $5,000.
I would be very cautious pouring money into collecting physical crypto, unless of course it brings you joy and you are prepared to lose everything. Could be a fad. Could be more volatile than the cryptocurrency itself.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
Collectors collect nice design physical bitcoin like collecting art. This token sold by a non bitcoin company. I bet the original price is less than a k. It just sold for 9k in ha.
i don't see why people don't "get" crypto. ask yourself: "do i believe that its plausible that one day we'll have digital currency and people will no longer pay for things with credit cards or cash?" if you think that is plausible...now ask yourself: "what is most likely going to be a digital currency at this point?"
there was once a time when some people believed that no one would want a horseless carriage; that there would only be one car per household; that computers would only be used by scientists and hobbyists; that no one would shop online; and that no one would use cryptocurrency to buy things and pay bills.
times change...
I have no problem with crypto. HOWEVER, i think the distinction you're glossing over is the sovereign backing. A digital dollar, even if a cryptocurrency, is not the same as BTC. BTC is backed by nothing. The dollar is backed by a socrypto currency,
I'll also add that buying unloaded tokens is not the same as buying crypto, just as buying a 1927-D $20 for $3.8 million is not the same as buying bullion.
The sovereign backing facilitates an exchange believed to be of equal value: Your $150 in paper for my case of bullets (or beans).
And absent a currency backed by precious metal, that's all it is. Recall, however, that the value of the silver dollar backing a silver (paper) certificate wasn't guaranteed either - it was assumed that it would always have value in measurable goods, but the actual goods and amount was subject to change over time.
Crypto is really the same - it's a promise exchangeable for goods based on the belief of equal values. There's no magic "x Santoshis for that case of bullets". It's rather what - at this instant - amount of crypto is worth the $150 of the case of bullets.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
In 2023 I made 130 of these in silver and 119 in copper. Issue price was $35 (copper) or $75 (silver).
Recent eBay sales are about $70 (copper) and $100 to $150 (silver). But note that the sellers had to pay to get them graded.
So a modest gain (so far) for anybody that bought one when issued.
Right. But it's unfunded. So it's not 1,000 BTCs. It's just a 1 of approximately 20 one ounce gold round.
Look at THE TITLE OF THIS THREAD. The OP said the unfunded coin sold for more than a funded bitcoin... but it's not an unfunded bitcoin, it's an unfunded 1000 BTC.
What's the difference, if it's unfunded? Does anyone here think it has any funding at all?
It's nothing more than a token, with no intrinsic value beyond that of the gold. It's not a wallet with 1 BTC, 0.00001 BTC, OR 1,000 BTC.
So what's the difference how many unfunded BTCs it sold for more than, if the amount of funded BTCs behind the token is exactly 0.00 BTC? What am I missing?
The comparison. It implies the coin is worth more than when it was funded, it is not.
Was it ever funded? In the beginning, BTC was worth next to nothing.
>
Yes it was funded. There is a code in the coin to redeem the bitcoins. If it had not been redeemed this would be worth over 100m right now.
Yes. What made these old tokens rare is that they were originally funded and very limited in number. If you look at the OP, you can see where it says it was originally funded.
They usually had a code under a hologram or something like that. I have not seen a loaded 1000 BTC in a while but you still see some 1 BTC loaded. They generally sell for a premium over the BTC value. Stacks sold some last year in a physical crypto auction.
$100k seems highly speculative to me. However, these are scarce tokens and if BTC is still around 30 years from now... who knows?
Thank for the education!!!