Starting the year with small submission--Calling my shots here

Shurke

I decided to kick off 2025 with a small 5 coin submission (all Mercury dimes) to CACG. It'll be interesting, as this is my first time submitting raw coins to CAC. So I thought I'd post the coins here and discuss my guesses regarding their future grades.

The meat of my submission consists of three Cherrypickers doubled dies--the entirety of my raw cherry picks over the last two years.


First up is a 1939 FS-101 DDO.

You'll have to excuse my pics. I'm working on it, but I'm a terrible coin photographer. This 1939 is a quite nice coin. I have it as 65FB, but there's some contact in the high points of Liberty's hair. Depending on whether CAC interprets this contact as a bag mark or as rub, it's possible this one could come back as 58+.


Next up is a 1940-S FS-101/801 DDO & DDR. There's also a strike-through on the obverse, so it's a minor variety + minor error, which I find neat.

Nice luster on this one. But there are a couple small contact marks on the reverse including one right across the center of the fasces. Also, the strike is less than great, which is pretty standard for this variety, but even taking that into account, I'm not sure just how much strike quality will figure into CAC's grading. I have this one as a 64.


The last of the varieties is a 1941-D FS-101/801 DDO & DDR.

Nice surfaces on this one. But I'm not sure there's enough luster to take it to a gem grade. I have this one as a 64FB.


The next one is a 1940 toner. No way I could capture this one with my own photography, so here are the seller's pics.

I've never submitted a raw toner to any service before, so this one will be an education for me. This one has nice surfaces, but it also has a thick skin, and the blue on the reverse in particular is keeping the luster muted. So in short, I have no idea how this one will grade.


Finally, a coin that isn't worth the grading fees: a 1936 ragged end clip. I forgot to take pics of this one before I packed it up, so seller's pics once again.

This one looks a lot better now that it's been through a series of acetone baths. Even though it's not really worth the grading fees, I decided to send this one in because I really like it, and I want to keep it with my slabbed coins. I've got this as either AU50 or 53.


My submission arrived in Virginia Beach this morning, so I'll post an update when I have the coins back in hand.

coinbuf

Good luck.

davewesen

nice and good luck. I hope your ragged clip gets a straight grade and not damage.

relicsncoins

Is that a light scratch on liberty's neck on the 40 S? I know purple on silver coins can be artificially produced. The toner might come back QT. Good luck, nice bunch of Mercs.

Shurke

@relicsncoins said:
Is that a light scratch on liberty's neck on the 40 S? I know purple on silver coins can be artificially produced. The toner might come back QT. Good luck, nice bunch of Mercs.

It’s a very thin die crack on the neck of the 40 S. It’s actually a pretty handy thing, as the variety would be a lot more difficult to cherry pick without it.

The toner is a bit of a dice roll. It looks like natural toning to me, but…. I guess I’ll find out what the experts think.

Shurke

@davewesen said:
nice and good luck. I hope your ragged clip gets a straight grade and not damage.

I hope so too. I spent a good long while looking at the edge, and I think it’s just how the ragged end of the strip folded when it came into contact with the collar.

On the other hand, I’ve swung and missed on coins more than a couple of times.

PeakRarities

Honestly at this point, I’m not getting any better grades at P or N than I am at CACG. I was shocked by my last NGC sub results with a little experiment. Multiple 65cac coins they graded 64…

lermish

@PeakRarities said:
Honestly at this point, I’m not getting any better grades at P or N than I am at CACG. I was shocked by my last NGC sub results with a little experiment. Multiple 65cac coins they graded 64…

Uh oh. I just sent in three borderline coins. Would be delighted with an ok result on any one of them but I guess I won't hold my breath.

PeakRarities

@lermish said:

@PeakRarities said:
Honestly at this point, I’m not getting any better grades at P or N than I am at CACG. I was shocked by my last NGC sub results with a little experiment. Multiple 65cac coins they graded 64…

Uh oh. I just sent in three borderline coins. Would be delighted with an ok result on any one of them but I guess I won't hold my breath.

It might just be a matter of who they sent to the show, but I have no idea how they delegate personnel. One was a gold coin that I thought was an easy 65+ (at pcgs), and I thought they might 66 it. Several experienced dealers said the same thing back when I first bought the coin, as well.

johnny010

@PeakRarities said:
Honestly at this point, I’m not getting any better grades at P or N than I am at CACG. I was shocked by my last NGC sub results with a little experiment. Multiple 65cac coins they graded 64…

Wow
What the heck

PeakRarities

@johnny010 said:

@PeakRarities said:
Honestly at this point, I’m not getting any better grades at P or N than I am at CACG. I was shocked by my last NGC sub results with a little experiment. Multiple 65cac coins they graded 64…

Wow
What the heck

You've seen one of them, in fact, I bought it from you. I didn't want to completely derail the thread so I was trying to withhold details, but I think that's the only coin you sold me.

Shurke

It’s an interesting discussion. Derail away.

ProofCollection

@PeakRarities said:
Honestly at this point, I’m not getting any better grades at P or N than I am at CACG. I was shocked by my last NGC sub results with a little experiment. Multiple 65cac coins they graded 64…

I had a Morgan come back from PCGS twice in MS65. Thought I'd give NGC a try and it came back 64. I was astounded.

FlyingAl

Every service kind of has its swings, mostly due to changes in grading teams. NGC could be in a tight stage right now.

Regardless, I think CACG is considerably tighter than the others, and I would expect the color on that dime to almost certainly come back AT.

coinbuf

@PeakRarities said:

@lermish said:

@PeakRarities said:
Honestly at this point, I’m not getting any better grades at P or N than I am at CACG. I was shocked by my last NGC sub results with a little experiment. Multiple 65cac coins they graded 64…

Uh oh. I just sent in three borderline coins. Would be delighted with an ok result on any one of them but I guess I won't hold my breath.

It might just be a matter of who they sent to the show, but I have no idea how they delegate personnel. One was a gold coin that I thought was an easy 65+ (at pcgs), and I thought they might 66 it. Several experienced dealers said the same thing back when I first bought the coin, as well.

@ProofCollection said:

@PeakRarities said:
Honestly at this point, I’m not getting any better grades at P or N than I am at CACG. I was shocked by my last NGC sub results with a little experiment. Multiple 65cac coins they graded 64…

I had a Morgan come back from PCGS twice in MS65. Thought I'd give NGC a try and it came back 64. I was astounded.

NGC has been grading much more technically for at least a year now, in fact PCGS was the loosest TPG in that year + time due to the least experienced staff. That is not to say NGC is as strick as CACG, they are not, just tighter than PCGS. From your recent experience Dan it sounds like they may have realized they needed to pick up the slack. I think that both of these TPG's are reacting to the CACG "effect".

PeakRarities

@coinbuf said:

@PeakRarities said:

@lermish said:

@PeakRarities said:
Honestly at this point, I’m not getting any better grades at P or N than I am at CACG. I was shocked by my last NGC sub results with a little experiment. Multiple 65cac coins they graded 64…

Uh oh. I just sent in three borderline coins. Would be delighted with an ok result on any one of them but I guess I won't hold my breath.

It might just be a matter of who they sent to the show, but I have no idea how they delegate personnel. One was a gold coin that I thought was an easy 65+ (at pcgs), and I thought they might 66 it. Several experienced dealers said the same thing back when I first bought the coin, as well.

@ProofCollection said:

@PeakRarities said:
Honestly at this point, I’m not getting any better grades at P or N than I am at CACG. I was shocked by my last NGC sub results with a little experiment. Multiple 65cac coins they graded 64…

I had a Morgan come back from PCGS twice in MS65. Thought I'd give NGC a try and it came back 64. I was astounded.

NGC has been grading much more technically for at least a year now, in fact PCGS was the loosest TPG in that year + time due to the least experienced staff. That is not to say NGC is as strick as CACG, they are not, just tighter than PCGS. From your recent experience Dan it sounds like they may have realized they needed to pick up the slack. I think that both of these TPG's are reacting to the CACG "effect".

Im inclined to agree fully....though that is concerning when such abrupt changes are made when the cat has been out of the bag town state for so long. They can tighten up, but that's not going to abruptly change everyone's perception and willingness to pay up for them.

coinbuf

@PeakRarities 100% agree that is true, and I hope it stays that way, I like buying nice coins at a discount to PCGS prices. At least I would if I was doing much buying.

PeakRarities

@coinbuf - Yup, looks like its time to adjust the buying strategy... at first I was wondering if it was just a one off but thanks for the insight.

coinbuf

@PeakRarities said:
@coinbuf - Yup, looks like its time to adjust the buying strategy... at first I was wondering if it was just a one off but thanks for the insight.

As always you have to weed out the older overgraded market graded stuff, but most of the recently graded coins are much better. My last submission to the sticker factory I received a much higher percentage of beans for the NGC graded coins vs the PCGS coins.

ProofCollection

@coinbuf said:

@PeakRarities said:
@coinbuf - Yup, looks like its time to adjust the buying strategy... at first I was wondering if it was just a one off but thanks for the insight.

As always you have to weed out the older overgraded market graded stuff, but most of the recently graded coins are much better. My last submission to the sticker factory I received a much higher percentage of beans for the NGC graded coins vs the PCGS coins.

If you follow Rarity7, his last CAC submission came back with a wild bean success ratio. And my last submission actually exceeded my expectations also. Maybe CAC is loosening up?

Rc5280

@PeakRarities said:

@johnny010 said:

@PeakRarities said:
Honestly at this point, I’m not getting any better grades at P or N than I am at CACG. I was shocked by my last NGC sub results with a little experiment. Multiple 65cac coins they graded 64…

Wow
What the heck

You've seen one of them, in fact, I bought it from you. I didn't want to completely derail the thread so I was trying to withhold details, but I think that's the only coin you sold me.

@Shurke said:
It’s an interesting discussion. Derail away.

Uh oh. I just sent in three borderline coins. Would be delighted with an ok result on any one of them but I guess I won't hold my breath.

It might just be a matter of who they sent to the show, but I have no idea how they delegate personnel. One was a gold coin that I thought was an easy 65+ (at pcgs), and I thought they might 66 it. Several experienced dealers said the same thing back when I first bought the coin, as well.

@ProofCollection said:

I had a Morgan come back from PCGS twice in MS65. Thought I'd give NGC a try and it came back 64. I was astounded.

NGC has been grading much more technically for at least a year now, in fact PCGS was the loosest TPG in that year + time due to the least experienced staff. That is not to say NGC is as strict as CACG, they are not, just tighter than PCGS. From your recent experience Dan it sounds like they may have realized they needed to pick up the slack. I think that both of these TPG's are reacting to the CACG "effect".

Im inclined to agree fully....though that is concerning when such abrupt changes are made when the cat has been out of the bag town state for so long. They can tighten up, but that's not going to abruptly change everyone's perception and willingness to pay up for them.

.

This is a very interesting topic, and worthy of a more in-depth look into this recent development. The more submitters that have had similar circumstances, the better we can gauge the validity of this perceived change of course.

Perhaps a new thread can be posted on the subject soon.

Thanks in advance!

Shurke

@FlyingAl said:

Regardless, I think CACG is considerably tighter than the others, and I would expect the color on that dime to almost certainly come back AT.

I’m a little outside my lane when it comes to toning, so I may have made a poor decision in submitting this. In your opinion, would it be more likely to straight grade elsewhere, or do you have it as cut and dry AT?

coinbuf

@ProofCollection said:

@coinbuf said:

@PeakRarities said:
@coinbuf - Yup, looks like its time to adjust the buying strategy... at first I was wondering if it was just a one off but thanks for the insight.

As always you have to weed out the older overgraded market graded stuff, but most of the recently graded coins are much better. My last submission to the sticker factory I received a much higher percentage of beans for the NGC graded coins vs the PCGS coins.

If you follow Rarity7, his last CAC submission came back with a wild bean success ratio. And my last submission actually exceeded my expectations also. Maybe CAC is loosening up?

Or is it that the bean ratio is different because NGC and PCGS have tighten up to closer align with CAC. The alternate theory is that you and others might now, after sending submissions to CAC, have adjusted your eye and have a better understanding of what will pass vs not.

ProofCollection

@coinbuf said:

@ProofCollection said:

@coinbuf said:

@PeakRarities said:
@coinbuf - Yup, looks like its time to adjust the buying strategy... at first I was wondering if it was just a one off but thanks for the insight.

As always you have to weed out the older overgraded market graded stuff, but most of the recently graded coins are much better. My last submission to the sticker factory I received a much higher percentage of beans for the NGC graded coins vs the PCGS coins.

If you follow Rarity7, his last CAC submission came back with a wild bean success ratio. And my last submission actually exceeded my expectations also. Maybe CAC is loosening up?

Or is it that the bean ratio is different because NGC and PCGS have tighten up to closer align with CAC. The alternate theory is that you and others might now, after sending submissions to CAC, have adjusted your eye and have a better understanding of what will pass vs not.

They weren't coins that were slabbed recently so there goes theory #1. Theory #2 is a possibility.

FlyingAl

@Shurke said:

@FlyingAl said:

Regardless, I think CACG is considerably tighter than the others, and I would expect the color on that dime to almost certainly come back AT.

I’m a little outside my lane when it comes to toning, so I may have made a poor decision in submitting this. In your opinion, would it be more likely to straight grade elsewhere, or do you have it as cut and dry AT?

I think you’ll have a hard time getting it straight graded at any service, but PCGS would be your best shot IMO.

Of course, I could be wrong and this is just my opinion.

Shurke

@FlyingAl said:

@Shurke said:

@FlyingAl said:

I think you’ll have a hard time getting it straight graded at any service, but PCGS would be your best shot IMO.

Of course, I could be wrong and this is just my opinion.

Well, dang. Thanks for your input here.

Looks like I will probably have this to look forward to:

1madman

@PeakRarities said:
Honestly at this point, I’m not getting any better grades at P or N than I am at CACG. I was shocked by my last NGC sub results with a little experiment. Multiple 65cac coins they graded 64…

Perhaps NGC did you a favor? Take the 64 slab and get it gold stickered at cac now.