RETURN TO SENDER REFUSED my last PCGS coin submission :(
davewesen
Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭✭✭
I put together a quarterly special submission to send off the last couple days of December. I figured it would be after the Christmas crunch and safely make it to PCGS. Everything was going smoothly and was in Newport Beach on January 2. The next few days I kept checking 'Find My Package' but it did not show up. I went back to my tracking and showed REFUSED. The next line showed Return to Sender Processed. I got the package back a couple days ago. It was a small flat rate priority box and I was happy that it was not empty. I checked the box and squeezed it and on one end the box was ripped. I used liberal clear tape over all the corners and edges and printed label I got from Paypal shipstation. My initial impression was that it got wet and broke open, but there was wide white tape over the end. I took scissors and cut tape over end in front of postmaster in case I needed to file an insurance claim. I could see inside the aluminum foil and ziplock bag with my coins inside so took it home.
When I got home I checked out the package again. What I thought was wet and damage was just cold. There was a cut and the end ripped open. When I pulled out my coins, the aluminum foil was definitely opened and all the stuff just pushed back into box before resealing with 4" wide white tape and clear tape over that. I am guessing this happened sometime before making it to PCGS post office. I had submission in ziplock bags covered with aluminum foil.
this is what the submission looked like when I sent it.
The submission in my bag was intact and did not look like even opened (It has over $25 face of collectible SBAs plus a Kennedy and IKE), besides the foil cover over it. I read up and it seems the USPS checks up to 20% of packages looking for 'prohibited' items. At some places they have dogs and x-ray scanners like at airports. A few that they deem 'suspicious' actually get opened. I remember once 10-15 years ago my airport checked luggage arrived with a piece of paper inside saying inspected by TSA with a bunch lawyer speak describing why they check luggage and their authority. There was not anything saying inspected by USPS, but I did use heavy tape and inside the foil could have been a couple thousand pills of some sort. From now on I will not cover coins with aluminum foil, except maybe gold.
I am worried about the expanding fire Los Angeles, but will probably send off again tomorrow, without the aluminum foil. I will use clear tape on the inside of the box, holding the bag together and onto the box. I might even use some of that brown tape you need to moisten on the outside. I was asking about registered, but if in priority flat rate box, I pay for that plus registered plus any insurance over $100 included.
Comments
I've had a damaged package refused by our hosts before, too. They don't want to be liable for receiving a box that could have been emptied by a postal employee. The last two damaged boxes I received were one from PCGS that I could check before accepting and one that was marked delivered and left in a locker (a ruptured small flat rate I'd posted here before).
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Could have been a situation where thieves opened it realized its not gold or something of value that a non collector would recognize as valuable (you said Ikes and kennedys and sba's ) and placed it back in. Basically not worth risk of being caught for non valuable (at least to them) stuff.
the sba's probably made them think the contents were cursed
Could also have been accidentally damaged in the sorting machinery and patched by the post office before being refused by PCGS for being damaged.
Thanks goodness you received the coins back!
Any chance you can submit in person at a major show? Avoid shipping in at least one direction!
I checked the box again. What I thought was white tape now appears to be a blank 4x8" white label because it has rounded corners. With clear tape over that to reenforce the end. I would doubt a thief would be carrying that as I assume they would pull out a pocket knife, cut and pocket what they want. I have also received damaged in shipping envelopes and boxes in the past that have been in a bag or taped up saying something like damaged in shipment. There was no indication of damaged in shipment except for the new label/tape over end.
Next time I go to my post office I will ask about inspections and see if they show up on their intranet tracking.
I do not plan on going to any major shows for submission in the near future.
My local postmaster asked their supervisor about inspections. They felt something would have been designated somewhere, but they are not near a major hub or airport so they may not know. Anyway I will not use as much aluminum foil or tape, but will probably tape coins inside the box in ziplock type box.
I repackaged and shipped again with success this time. PCGS accepted box on Jan 15. A link to my 'shared' order.
https://pcgs.com/shared-orders/order-details/24713158
I ALWAYS use the brown tape, especially when sending to PCGS or NGC, even for Priority or Ground, scammers will move onto the more easy package to get into, and you know everybody knows a PCGS or NGC has coins in it.
Or sending Coins back to the mint, both UPS or USPS.
With NGC I got a call once from shipping looking for direction on whether to refuse the package with a slightly compromised/damaged parcel.
I’ve been using the threaded security tape much more often, whereas I only used to apply it to Registered Mail. As you noted, criminals looking for opportunity can find much easier targets, and it’s harder to “accidentally” rip open.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
For $10 more you could have put a box in a box....Less chance of damage for a larger box.
bob
I imagine pcgs doesn't want the hassle of dealing with packages that arrive opened or messed with
What is the aluminum foil for ? Never heard of that before.
Some have suggested aluminum foil can hinder XRF determining metal content or reading PCGS slabs with NFC
https://pcgs.com/security
The aluminum foil prevents a thief from using his smart phone to read the NFC chip in the newer PCGS slabs.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I use a strong poly bag or bubble mailer inside of a box. Put a copy of the shipping label on the bag/mailer as well in case the box gets “damaged”.
There have got to be many successful ways around possible theft. Maybe foil has become a target?
I doubt any thief would do this given that 0.00000001% of packages contain slabs.
Most postal employees will have a smart phone on their belt or in their hip pocket. Obviously, the thief would only check those boxes that they think might have coins such as small boxes with a lot of postage for insurance and signature requirement. Do you really think they just open boxes at random?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Or higher powered NFC scanners.
That being said....how do we know a higher percentage of packages containing coins are opened vs all other packages? We only hear about stolen coins here, we have no idea what other items/packages are absconded with.
Due to our observational bias, it could be that high value coin packages represent a high percentage of stolen packages...or barely any.
At this point, I’m not sure why anyone uses the flat rate boxes.
I don’t know if these are sorted are handled differently but these are the ONLY packages I’ve experienced theft with.
Im curious. Did you utilize the kiosk and drop it in the bin at the post office?
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
Thanks for the info on foil liners. I've never seen this idea anywhere but this forum. I do typically use a flat rate box because it is handy but always use Registered mail for higher value packages. Unfortunately it is slow but seems like insurance rates are about the same as a flat rate box in the 1000 to 3000.00 range.
I doubt they are random. I also doubt they scan them. Far more raw coins and jewelry in the mail than slabs.
I vote "barely any" or, if you prefer, "observational bias". Otherwise we'd be getting 20 Numismatic Crime emails per day.