Alexander Ovechkin 25 goals away from passing Gretzky's 894 goal record

TheGoonies1985

Ovechkin now sits at 870 goals.

TheGoonies1985

I never wanted to see Wayne's record get passed but here we are and I have no doubt Ovechkin will pass it this season. And be the first ever to reach 900 career NHL goals.

TheGoonies1985

Wayne's 2857 career points will never be passed you would need 200 point season for 15 straight years and no one has ever had 200 points in a single season except Gretzky (Lemieux had one season of 199 points). Or 150 points for 20 straight seasons it is impossible.

No one else has ever reached 2000 points in their career.

Basebal21

I still think that Waynes record for the goals is more impressive. Played in a more physical era and Ovi has taken almost 2000 more shots on goal than Wayne did. Ovis a great player but hes a selfish volume shooter with the all time shots record by a good margin in a shorter time than anyone else. He will probably finish his career as the only player with over 7k shots, Wayne would have a lot more goals if he played that way

lanemyer85

@Basebal21 said:
I still think that Waynes record for the goals is more impressive. Played in a more physical era and Ovi has taken almost 2000 more shots on goal than Wayne did. Ovis a great player but hes a selfish volume shooter with the all time shots record by a good margin in a shorter time than anyone else. He will probably finish his career as the only player with over 7k shots, Wayne would have a lot more goals if he played that way

except 99 played 95% of his career in an era where a winger's defensive responsibility was to not let the trailing defensemen get in front of them...not to mention he barely played in the 1994-2019 deadpuck (trap/obscruction) era....an era where team defensive systems became a thing. 1995 is also roughly when the average goalie became actualized-competent...when goalies began getting taught cutting down angles is the most important thing. How many 2-pad stacks do you see today? None, unless there's a goalmouth scramble/wraparound situation, because goalies today are rarely out of position. Whereas pre-95, the average goalie routinely looked like an infant getting dipe-wrapped.

Go hit youtube for prime-Gretzky era goal highlights and see how much open space is around the slot (the slot era is where 75% of goals are scored from today). An era where guys were scoring goals on slap shots from the point with no net-front screens due to poor goaler positioning and a complete lack of defensive help from wingers who generally pulled up at the blueline. 99 would adjust to today's game, but he wouldn't be scoring 800+ goals even in a 20 year career. His shot wasn't that good. He'd have to become Auston Matthews-versatile in scoring goals via various means - wristers, slappers, one-timers (led the league last year), shot tips/redirections etc (he's in the top 6 or 7 in all those categories...whereas most 30 goal guys are in one.

The argument here is whether Ovechkin is actually better than 99 because in most cases 99 created his chances, yes with help from Kurri and Coffey and other high-end HOFers, but over half of Ovechkin's goals were directly scored via one-timers which means he's dependent on someone one else to create/feed the chance for him.

Basebal21

@lanemyer85 said:

@Basebal21 said:
I still think that Waynes record for the goals is more impressive. Played in a more physical era and Ovi has taken almost 2000 more shots on goal than Wayne did. Ovis a great player but hes a selfish volume shooter with the all time shots record by a good margin in a shorter time than anyone else. He will probably finish his career as the only player with over 7k shots, Wayne would have a lot more goals if he played that way

except 99 played 95% of his career in an era where a winger's defensive responsibility was to not let the trailing defensemen get in front of them...not to mention he barely played in the 1994-2019 deadpuck (trap/obscruction) era....an era where team defensive systems became a thing. 1995 is also roughly when the average goalie became actualized-competent...when goalies began getting taught cutting down angles is the most important thing. How many 2-pad stacks do you see today? None, unless there's a goalmouth scramble/wraparound situation, because goalies today are rarely out of position. Whereas pre-95, the average goalie routinely looked like an infant getting dipe-wrapped.

Go hit youtube for prime-Gretzky era goal highlights and see how much open space is around the slot (the slot era is where 75% of goals are scored from today). An era where guys were scoring goals on slap shots from the point with no net-front screens due to poor goaler positioning and a complete lack of defensive help from wingers who generally pulled up at the blueline. 99 would adjust to today's game, but he wouldn't be scoring 800+ goals even in a 20 year career. His shot wasn't that good. He'd have to become Auston Matthews-versatile in scoring goals via various means - wristers, slappers, one-timers (led the league last year), shot tips/redirections etc (he's in the top 6 or 7 in all those categories...whereas most 30 goal guys are in one.

The argument here is whether Ovechkin is actually better than 99 because in most cases 99 created his chances, yes with help from Kurri and Coffey and other high-end HOFers, but over half of Ovechkin's goals were directly scored via one-timers which means he's dependent on someone one else to create/feed the chance for him.

The Devils were definitely menaces with their defense playing the trap in the 90s. But that changes and a lot of rule changes to encourage more goals during the career of Ovi.

Wayne definitely had some great teammates early on but Ovi did too his whole career so far. He had very good players around him the whole time and Wayne put up a ton of points even leading the league on multiple teams for assists and points. Ovi never lead the league in assists and most were rebounds off his shots and never lead in points other than one year.

If 99 played the same way and took more shots hed have more goals and less assists. Waymes shot wasnt a missile by any means but if he had modern training who knows.

I wouldnt even say Ovi was the best player of his generation with how he just ddint play defense for so many years. Crosby doesnt have the same goals but has more points and better plus minus by far. A 61 point plus minus for Ovi is really tough

georgebailey2

Ovechkin is a specimen. As a pure goal scorer, he can legitimately be argued as the best. But if someone argued Bossy or either Hull, I wouldn't denigrate their argument. That said, you can only compare players against the competition they played against. Additionally, if you're only looking at per game stats, for players that only had a prime you need to look at comparable years for other players, not their entire careers.

@Basebal21 said:

Waymes shot wasnt a missile by any means but if he had modern training who knows.

When you watch Gretzky, no single aspect of his game stood out as "clearly the best". His skating looked choppy for example. He wasn’t a speciman and he didn't seem to keep the puck on a string like Mario. What set him aside from the others was that he played as if he was simultaneously watching the game from the press box and wearing an earpiece.

Yet, his skating and shot were actually deceptively elite. Once he got a stride on someone, I rarely saw players catch him.

As far as his shot, look at videos of the 39th game against the Flyers when he got to 50. At least two of the goals were complete cranks into the top corners of the net which no goalie in any era would stop. Or the goal against Sweden in the 87 Canada Cup. Granted, these are somewhat anecdotal, but his shot certainly didn't suck.

When I remember Gretzky, what comes to mind is the Max Mercy line in "The Natural": "Home runs, triples, singles...

Anything he wants to hit, he hits.

I've never seen anything like it."

TheGoonies1985

Ovechkin now sits at 872 goals.

Needs 22 to tie Gretzky and 23 to pass him. Needs 28 goals to be the 1st ever to reach 900 NHL goals.

Basebal21

@georgebailey2 said:
Ovechkin is a specimen. As a pure goal scorer, he can legitimately be argued as the best. But if someone argued Bossy or either Hull, I wouldn't denigrate their argument. That said, you can only compare players against the competition they played against. Additionally, if you're only looking at per game stats, for players that only had a prime you need to look at comparable years for other players, not their entire careers.

@Basebal21 said:

Waymes shot wasnt a missile by any means but if he had modern training who knows.

When you watch Gretzky, no single aspect of his game stood out as "clearly the best". His skating looked choppy for example. He wasn’t a speciman and he didn't seem to keep the puck on a string like Mario. What set him aside from the others was that he played as if he was simultaneously watching the game from the press box and wearing an earpiece.

Yet, his skating and shot were actually deceptively elite. Once he got a stride on someone, I rarely saw players catch him.

As far as his shot, look at videos of the 39th game against the Flyers when he got to 50. At least two of the goals were complete cranks into the top corners of the net which no goalie in any era would stop. Or the goal against Sweden in the 87 Canada Cup. Granted, these are somewhat anecdotal, but his shot certainly didn't suck.

When I remember Gretzky, what comes to mind is the Max Mercy line in "The Natural": "Home runs, triples, singles...

Anything he wants to hit, he hits.

I've never seen anything like it."

I completely agree. He wasnt the psychical specimens that Mario and Ovi were but he saw the whole game better than anyone.

Had Mario been able to stay healthy his whole career I think wed be having a different conversation. Wayne is still my number 1 for best player ever but Mario could have challenged that

Ovi is a specimen for sure I just dont like the way he plays. Ive had to watch far more Caps games than I wanted to from friends being big Caps fans but everything always seems to be about him despite playing basically his whole career on really good teams with a lot of talent around him while Wayne made everyone around him better on multiple teams

TheGoonies1985

Ovechkin now sits at 873 goals.

Needs 21 to tie Gretzky and 22 to pass him. Needs 27 goals to be the 1st ever to reach 900 NHL goals.

TheGoonies1985

Ovechkin now sits at 874 goals.

Needs 20 to tie Gretzky and 21 to pass him. Needs 26 goals to be the 1st ever to reach 900 NHL goals.

craig44

he has really had a goal scoring resurgence this season. he has those 21 goals in what, 29 games?

TheGoonies1985

@craig44 said:
he has really had a goal scoring resurgence this season. he has those 21 goals in what, 29 games?

He wants that record it is driving him to be this good.

TheGoonies1985

Ovechkin now sits at 875 goals.

Needs 19 to tie Gretzky and 20 to pass him. Needs 25 goals to be the 1st ever to reach 900 NHL goals.

BLUEJAYWAY

I wonder if Gretzky will attend the games that may tie and break his record.

craig44

I am sure Wayne will be there.