Ebay useless with fake 16-D Merc auction
Connecticoin
Posts: 12,903 ✭✭✭✭✭
So I reported the auction linked below, and included a photo of a genuine 16-D Merc
The coin is clearly a 16-S blob and not a 16-D. I tried to inform the seller of this, but the seller refuses to end the auction. Ebay supposedly had a live person review it but got this canned response:
I will try reporting it again with my other account, but maybe if a few of us report it, it will be interesting to see if it then gets zapped.
On the other hand, maybe the bidders who bid it up to $455 should not be buying raw coins on ebay and need a $500 lesson.
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Comments
Yes, an S mintmark for sure.
get the bogus thing certified and then maybe someone will talk to seller, fwiw
I’ve been in touch with the seller and am hopeful he’ll end the listing.
Edited to add:
The seller said “The first guy that reached out was incredibly nasty and snide about it, which really made me hesitate to take him seriously. But it’s something I need to address”.
In many years of communicating with sellers, I’ve found that a polite, informative approach is much more likely to achieve positive results than making accusations and putting them on the defensive.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Under the circumstances, that’s not worth much of anything.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I was not nasty and snide. I was cordial and tried to help the seller, and he got offended that I capitalized the word “NOT” for emphasis. He then used profanity with me and later apologized, and said he will “let ebay decide”.
I apologize, as I see that my previous post made it sound as if I were speaking specifically about you.
For all I know, he was talking about someone else. And based on your posts here, I would have been extremely surprised if you’d been rude.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Well the niceness has not worked yet as auction is still live. It is easier now for seller to stop auction, then in the past.
Reported also.
I’m shocked the auction has that many bidders.
S
is there a misrepresented "report" choice?
It’s no longer listed. Good work you all.
GONE!!!
Good work by the seller also
Below are some of the messages I received from the seller among my many interactions with him. I hope they will show what it can be like from the point of view of someone on the other side of threads like this one - a seller who wasn’t out to take advantage of clueless bidders.
“Our grandfather died and we’re now cleaning out his stuff/my decreased uncle’s house (they lived together). Everything’s a bit crazy right now, just know there isnt anyone trying to screw anyone over here”
“I meant nothing by offering the coin on sale, especially disclosing my lack of knowledge in the description. The reaction was quite surprising to be honest.”
“And you guys are super proud of yourselves in that forum. My grandfather died, now this. You guys arent the good guys you think you are,”
“Just took the sale down, really hoping i don’t have to incur the possible “cancellation fee”. For the record, of all the people that reached out- you were the only one who wasnt accusatory in a brutal way. Sounds like a lot of them didnt actually read my reviews to see what kind of salesman i am. Either way - you were by far the most approachable.”
“It cost me $63 to cancel that. Let your goonsquad know it cost me instead of making that money on something i listed with honesty.”
“They should not feel pride for the way this went down. Shame on you guys.”
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Unfortunately, I'm sure he's right. Most people seem to assume that it is always a "scam" and respond that way.
This type of situation is yet another example of what I feel can be a very difficult challenge - at least for myself.
Each of us has differing levels of experience and knowledge. And I think that the more a person knows, the more difficult it might be to remember what it was like when they first started out. Are they even able to think from the point of view of a beginner, now that they’re so far removed from that place?
I often catch myself wondering how a newbie (or even a not-so-newbie) can be so clueless about something to do with coins. It might concern a laughable counterfeit, an obviously damaged coin as opposed to a mint error, a ridiculous looking artificially toned coin, etc. And sometimes I try to look back at what I knew at different points in time. When would I have been equally clueless? When I do that, it usually helps me to have a better attitude and be more understanding of others.
In the case of the coin in this eBay listing, it would be obvious to most collectors that the mintmark was an S, not a D. Yet, a number of people were bidding on it before the seller ended the listing. And the seller isn’t even a collector. Yes, if he’d taken the coin to a dealer for authentication, or looked at enough pictures of genuine 1916-D dimes he would have learned that his coin wasn’t as he listed it.
But, while his intentions weren’t dishonest, the same can’t be said for many other sellers. And unfortunately, we can’t and/or don’t always distinguish between the ones like him (who don’t know as much as we do) and the ones who do know better, and seek to take advantage of others.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Thank you for sharing that exchange. It does concern me when someone offers something for sale stating their lack of knowledge. Do they really want to go through the hassle of returning someone's money when the item is found not to be what it is believed to be?
I'm usually polite when I inform sellers their coins are misrepresented or are counterfeits. The seller's response will usually tell you the sort of person you're dealing with and whether they have good motives. I escalate appropriately or inappropriately from there.
People offering XF 1958-D Lincolns for $25000.00 get the "scumbag" treatment. Their responses become hilarious when they threaten me with all sorts of legal action.
I simply ask the initial question "are you listing that one as genuine"? People who want to learn ask, those who do not get nasty. I then explain to the nasty ones "then trying to sell it as such makes it a counterfeit under US law"
...
The hardest thing to know is what you don't know. On top of that, it is sometimes staggering the conclusions people jump to with the unknown.
BM owners deal with this almost daily. One of my favorite stories:
Man came into my friend's store in the 1990s with a couple hundred Susan B $s thinking he had struck it rich. My friend told them they were with $1.
The man told my friend that he had gotten them at the vending machine at the Post Office. He had never seen one and when he got the first one in change, he thought he had something special. So he went to the ATM and ran a couple hundred through the vending machine to create his hoard. It simply never dawned on him that a coin being used in a vending machine couldn't possibly be rare or valuable.
You see it with newbies looking closely at coins for the first time. They find dozens of "errors" just because they had never studied the damage in coins previously. And again, it never dawns on them that if you could find dozens of "errors" in a few rolls of quarters, they couldn't be rare or valuable.
On top of that, expecting a newbie to understand hiw a PCGS MS69 half is better than the uncirculated coin in their hand is unreasonable. Even knowing a coin is shiny and polished as opposed to unique and valuable is not information everyone intrinsically possesses.
And as for the 1916-S dime, we recently had an experienced forum member post one and "double check" that it wasn't a "D".
How does the saying go: never explain as malice that which can be subscribed to ignorance?
FWIW about 2 weeks ago I informed an ebay seller his 09-SVDB cent listing was not genuine. The seller thanked me and took the auction down. So the polite approach does work from time to time and saves the hassle of trying to get ebay to do the right thing.
If I think there’s a reasonable chance that the seller isn’t a slime-ball, I’ll start off by messaging him and not eBay. I let the seller know that the listing’s being discussed on a large coin forum, that (if applicable) it’s being reported to eBay, that his eBay reputation might be negatively impacted, and that he has the right to a full refund on a purchase of a counterfeit coin.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Excuse me for showing my ignorance here but when I looked at the listing and saw it was taken down it said that there were zero bids on it. That was my first time to see the listing so was it the case that there were actual bids on it and that is why it cost the seller $63 to cancel it? Does eBay remove the bid history of auctions that end early?
If so then I do commend the seller for taking a bit of a financial hit to do the right thing but I disagree with his statement that the effort that people put in here to alert him shouldn't be commended as well even if the communication was potentially harsh by some. At the end of the day had no one here notified the seller then it's possible that someone would have ended up well overpaying for a Mercury dime.
I feel badly about what the seller is going through in his personal life, but just as no one here could have known his mindset, he did not know the mindset of those who contacted him. He judged them in the same way some of them apparently judged him.
I do not believe that he had dishonest or ill intent. However, he listed what he thought was a rare/key coin with no actual knowledge behind him.
I do not believe he was a scammer, but many scammers use the approach that they are not a collector and have no idea what they have.
As for it costing him money to cancel the auction, he must have had some add-on features on ebay (promoted listing, etc). My few low-end auctions on ebay can be ended or restarted at will.
He was lucky he found out before he sold it. He would have been on the hook for postage both ways and possibly gotten negative feedback.
I learned an expensive lesson on eBay ONCE about 20 years ago....Nobody saved me.
It was a HARD lesson, but it taught me well. I NEVER made that mistake again.
Sometimes, this needs to happen; I suppose...
The winning bidder will DEFINITELY be paying tuition for a useful albeit painful coin 'education'.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
The seller ended the auction, so the bidders who bid it up to almost $500 were “saved”
Good. You saved them from themselves as much as from the shady seller.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Ah, then this answers my question and eBay does remove bid history on auctions that end early. It’s possible that the bids could have gone even higher had the auction continued so $500 is the minimum that was saved.
Regarding the $63 fee the seller had to pay to end the auction I would hope that they could talk with eBay to explain the situation and get credited back especially since they were doing the right thing to end it early.
Your post makes it sound like you haven't been following the thread (which is certainly your prerogative) However, the seller wasn't shady.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
If it was an honest error, then I stand corrected. You’re right. I didn’t read the entire thread.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
The auction title stated it was 1916 D. not 1916 d.?
Hi!
Please note: this was found amongst several other coins in our grandparents attic. In doing some research, there is a significant difference between “S” and “D” (location). This was originally sold as a “1916 D” for $1.35. I’ve shown several zoomed in pictures of where the D/S should be shown, and it is inconclusive to my untrained/inexperienced eye. I am listing this as D due to the labeling on the coin cover itself. Please use your own judgement based off the photos provided.
Then claims inconclusive and based on label for1.35 if true would be a good buy. I a bet EBAY would have stopped this one if not cancelled.
Agreed. When I see a coin, antique, or anything really, prefaced with "I am no expert, but..." or "I inherited this and am selling it but have no idea of it's value" etc... That is an automatic red flag for me because that is what many con men will lead with.
In my mind, if you intend to sell something, it would behoove you to do a little bit of research and gain at least a general knowledge of what it is, and what it might in general be valued at. Right? Do you really want to sell grandpa's Ferrari 308 GTS for a couple grand?
I DO empathize in this case with the seller due to the circumstances, and authenticating coins is a tall order for nearly anyone but and expert in the field, but my overall sentiment remains. Take the time to educate yourself at least a little bit before attempting to market and sell a potentially valuable item. Google is free!
Peace,
Dwayne
Dwayne F. Sessom
Ebay ID: V-Nickel-Coins