I know this has been beaten to death, but............ (CACG related)
MWallace
Posts: 4,144 ✭✭✭✭✭
Does the "Green Bean" on the label of a CACG graded coin mean it's an A or B quality coin? If "yes", I'll have a follow-up.
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The logo (not bean) means that the coin, according to the CACG graders, meets their standards for the grade. Best to forget the alphabet.
The green CAC sticker is supposed to signify that in the opinion of CAC, the coin is solid for the grade or better.
Long ago, the "A,B,C" distinctions were mentioned by J.A. just to serve as an example. However, many people have run with it and far further than was ever intended. That said, it's not especially unusual to hear numismatists opine that a coin's low- end, mid-range or high-end for the assigned grade. And that can be said to equate with A, B or C quality.
Edited to add: The "green bean" logo seen on CACG graded coins is just a logo and has nothing to do with "A, B, C" quality distinctions.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Thanks @oldabeintx and @MFields. I asked because I have seen a CACG Detail graded coin (Cleaned). I was wondering what a Green Bean meant in that case. So the GB on the label is just a logo. It doesn't mean anything unless it's on any other TPG besides CACG, where it means nothing. Maybe I'm getting too old but I'm just confused about several things about CAC and CACG.
My last name is Feld, not Fields. That aside, the "green bean" logo seen on CACG holders is as you stated - just a logo. Detail graded coins aren't typically categorized the way straight grade coins are.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@MField I apologize for getting your name wrong. I've seen it 13,566 times and STILL got it wrong. You can call me Wallis if you'd like. But just once.
Here's the coin BTW. https://cacgrading.com/cert/2539187
CAC and CACG are separate affiliates with the same leadership. They should have the same standards, but they have different grading teams, and remember the old saw that grading is subjective. One group looks at the work of PCGS and NGC and the other competes with them. What seems confusing is that CAC will simply not sticker a details coin, while CACG handles details coins the same way PCGS and NGC do. There has been some confusion about this and some have objected to the logo, being identical to the bean, as being misleading. We’ve pretty much moved on now.
Thank you, Wallis. And my guess is that the 13,567th time will be the charm.😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Just don't call @MFeld by the name @RealTone and you should be fine!
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
How long until we see a joke or troll account with that username?
Thank you, @TomB.
And on that subject, please don’t call me @ArtTone(d), @QuestionabllyTone(d), or @QTone(d), either.😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Someone needs to do a sticker for CACG Details so we can tell if it is an A, B or C coin relative to other 1893 CAC XF DETAILS Harshly Cleaned Columbian Halves.
How can the hobby go on without it?
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
I know that those in the know have moved on, but there are novice collectors as well as new people joining the hobby all of the time. This whole situation doesn't seem well thought out for those people that come along later joining the hobby for years, even decades ahead.
@MWallace:
I don’t think the TPG’s have it in their business model to educate collectors, new or otherwise. It’s up to the individual to do that themselves, whether it be through study, fellow collectors, perhaps a mentor, coin clubs, etc.
Stripped bare, they’re essentially marketing enterprises, but imo, do provide a valuable service to collectors & dealers alike.
Even so, we’ll still make mistakes & hopefully keep those to a minimum.
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
Just for the record, I was speaking of only one TPG.
MFeld plural
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
@MWallace: I realize that; holds true for them. I think @MFeld said it very well in his first post in this thread, certainly more on point!
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
Yes he did, and I thanked him right below his first post.
I can empathize with both the novice and seasoned collectors who are confused by the logo on CACG holders vs. the CAC stickers on PCGS and NGC holders. Some of us voiced our disagreement with that decision early on, but we’re outvoted by those whose opinion actually counted.😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Does your wife make cookies, Mr. Fields?
When I say we’ve “moved on” I meant only to covey that the “details” battle has been fought and presumably lost. So we move on to more important things to worry about.
I'm waiting for CAC to start beaning CACG coins.
Collector of Liberty Seated Half Dimes, including die pairs and die states
CAC actually still uses the A, B and C description in their FAQs page for "CAC Stickering". I have no idea why they named the URL for the page as they did, but it's their company. Anyway, the following is a quote from the page-
"Q: I noticed that CAC uses the term “premium quality” to describe coins that receive a CAC sticker. How does CAC define premium quality?
A: For many years, coin dealers and advanced collectors have used the letters A, B and C among themselves to further describe coins. C indicates low-end for the grade, B indicates solid for the grade and A indicates high-end. CAC will only award stickers to coins in the A or B category. C coins, although accurately graded, will be returned without a CAC sticker."
https://www.cacgrading.com/doc/why-smart-watch-is-important/
The page was last updated on February 27, 2024.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I've had CAC coins rebeaned at a lower grade after its PCGS slab was crushed by the USPS with no damage to the coin. I called it the "Immaculate Compression." I didn't get a gold bean, either. However, I agree that XF40 is the appropriate grade. I chalk it up to a tightening in grading at that time.
Looks like a great coin and for it to be undamaged by that mayhem is wonderful.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I disagree. PCGS has invested a small fortune creating and providing learning resources and materials, most of which are free.
And for the record and informational purposes, all straight graded CACG coins share their population report with CAC stickered coin population report (but using separate columns).
So, one can infer that, for example, a CACG XF45 graded coin is considered to be equivalent to a similar XF45 stickered coin in the eyes of both services.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
From CACG
Note: We do not sticker coins in a CAC holder as those coins have already met our standards._
https://cacgrading.com/stickering
I laugh, but it is true
The bean game and the slab business are confusing.
Long ago, I chose to stick with our host. Lazy, but makes life easier.
One style box, slab, and beans are a bonus.
Other TPG's exist only to be crossed for flipping or simply a cheap example of a desired variety.
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Right!! That brings me back to the premise of my OP. Would CAC sticker an NGC or PCGS Detailed coin, in this case "XF - Harshly Cleaned?"
AND, the label says "CAC XF Details", not "CACG XF Details." Could it have been made any more confusing for the majority of collectors that aren't in the grading game?
Honestly I don't see where the confusion is. The sticker is applied as an agreement with the grade. It would be redundant for CAC to apply a sticker that they agree with CAC. Isn't this obvious? I always agree with myself but I don't need to tell you that. I'm not sure why people would need or want a second opinion that a coin is Details. If they disagree that it's details they should crack it out and resubmit it - there's no risk of downgrade at that point. Or just buy it if you don't own it yet. I would expect 99.9% of collectors don't need the affirmation from another TPG that a coin truly is details. They may think their coin isn't details but they don't need or want another TPG to agree with a details designation - only to dispute it perhaps.
And everybody keeps thinking you are a great grandson of Marshall Field who wandered off into the coin business.
Even CACG and CAC are confused.
CAC Grading, LLC (hereafter referred to as “CAC”) and you,
All Submitters acknowledge that CAC Grading, LLC is a new entity completely separate from the original Certified Acceptance Corporation (“OLD CAC”).
So there is now CAC Grading, LLC, CAC and OLD CAC.
https://cacgrading.com/legal