Pillar dollar 1743 year, Mexico, genuine

Orient555

Hallo!

Pease tell me if the coin is genuine?
Auction photo, I'll add my own today.
Very thanks!

Orient555

second try

Orient555

My photo

pruebas

I believe it’s a fake.

SimonW

@pruebas said:
I believe it’s a fake.

When the man is right the man is right. It's A VERY good fake, but I too believe it's fake or falsa.

Namvet69

@pruebas Curious, Is it the date font or the castles? Gobble gobble 😎 Peace Roy

Orient555

Thanks for all.

pruebas

@Orient555 Why did you take down the photos?

Why not give others a chance to state their opinion?

That’s how we all learn.

Orient555

I'm sorry.
Returns all photos.

Orient555

Maybe any other opinions?
I suspected this coin was not genuine because of its edge. But it turned out that such an edge is possible on coins of this year.

Orient555

I searched the database and found a coin of the same year with the same small stamp defect near the number 7 in the date:

Orient555

One size of
coin

SimonW

I didn’t even notice the stamp defect

Orient555

I carefully examined the last coin. Concluded that the reverses (date sides) were struck with a single die. But the obverse dies are different. What do you say?

Orient555

combined photos of reverses for clarity

SimonW

Brad Yonaka wrote a great book about Mexico pillar coinage, I recommend you pick one up. Full of info about this kind of coin.

Orient555

Hello!

Please, write down the signs by which the coin is determined to be fake. I will need to return the coin, but the auction may refuse to return money it if the signs of fake are not named.

SimonW

@Orient555 said:
Hello!

Please, write down the signs by which the coin is determined to be fake. I will need to return the coin, but the auction may refuse to return money it if the signs of fake are not named.

Send it in for certification, you can’t have a better reason for return than “one of the best certification companies in the world thinks it’s fake.” Our novice opinions are just that. PCGS has much more experience.

SimonW

Which auction house? Most are quite willing to return a coin if it’s determined to be fake.

Orient555

Aureo & Calico.

Of course, if PCGS or NGC rejects it, the auction will refund the money.

It turns out that there are no obvious signs, and the non-authenticity of the coin can only be determined by a certifying company?

threefifty

@realeswatcher - what do you think of the coin?

SimonW

Well, being that Aureo y Calico auctioned it and they’re pretty good at spotting fakes (not perfect, but everyone misses sometimes.) It’s probably real. This is the shot from the archive. Personally, I’d certify any 8R Mexican coin, there’s probably more fake ones out there than real ones 😩

pruebas

The thing is that Aureo has seen it in person and we have not.

I still think it's fake, but would love to be proven wrong.
Please have it certified and show us the result.

TheGoonies1985

Use either NGC or PCGS I would not use any other 3rd party graders. NGC has graded more milled Mexico 8 reales than PCGS.

TheGoonies1985

Would you mind me sending your images to Brad Yonaka? See if he thinks it is real or fake? Not sure if he will give his opinion since you purchased it from a reputable auction house. But worth asking.

Pruebas has been around a long long time so he may be correct. He is no rookie when it comes to these coins. Always good to have 2 opinions even after seen 1 doctor.

Maybe Brad will be able to match it to one of the know die pairs or maybe not.

TheGoonies1985

I compared it to a bunch of 1743 8 reales (sold section) over at Heritage auctions some things seem off on your coin but then again could be a different die pair. The main issue is the cross alignment and lack of doubling in certain letters on your coin. But your coin does has doubling in the ''N'' of Hispan'' in one part not 2 parts like I am seen on others.

I will compare it to more coins and see if I can find a matching die pair.

If it is fake it is a very good fake like others have said.

You

It doesn’t matter if a die match to a genuine example can be found. If it’s a fake it would still be a die match to some example out there that it would have been transferred from. I don’t think it’s fake though.

coinkat

If you have some concerns, weigh the coin just to confirm it is within specs. If you have doubts, there is the submission option.

realeswatcher

@threefifty said:
@realeswatcher - what do you think of the coin?

A whole lot of to do... about a perfectly genuine example... by a buyer who doesn't know enough to make said to do about it.

TheGoonies1985

Sent your images (only of the front and back of the coin not the edge) to Brad Yonaka yesterday.

TheGoonies1985

Brad Yonaka did get back to me. This is what he had to say:

Hi,

At least from seeing the two struck surfaces, I don't see any red flags suggesting that it is fake. I'm sure that PCGS or NGC, assuming they agree on the authenticity, would slab it as a details coin (environmental damage).

Regards,
Brad

TheGoonies1985

This does not mean Pruebas is not correct it is 2 opinions from very knowledgeable people in this field. Best to let PCGS or NGC make the final call.

This is not some sort of competition between Brad and Pruebas. It is their opinions and both must/should be respected.

Send it to PCGS or NGC for final peace of mind. If it comes back real then be happy with the coin if not maybe look into getting a full refund.

You

@TheGoonies1985 said:
Brad Yonaka did get back to me. This is what he had to say:

Hi,

At least from seeing the two struck surfaces, I don't see any red flags suggesting that it is fake. I'm sure that PCGS or NGC, assuming they agree on the authenticity, would slab it as a details coin (environmental damage).

Regards,
Brad

I disagree re: it being slabbed as environmental damaged - it just looks darkly toned. Looks like about a 53.

TheGoonies1985

@You said:

@TheGoonies1985 said:
Brad Yonaka did get back to me. This is what he had to say:

Hi,

At least from seeing the two struck surfaces, I don't see any red flags suggesting that it is fake. I'm sure that PCGS or NGC, assuming they agree on the authenticity, would slab it as a details coin (environmental damage).

Regards,
Brad

I disagree re: it being slabbed as environmental damaged - it just looks darkly toned. Looks like about a 53.

Many different opinions. All the more reason to have it graded by NGC or PCGS.