Montroville Dickeson's Continental Dollars!
Zoins
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Two recent strong results for Monty's coins!
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Zoins
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Cool. Like Dickesons stuff.
I like them too! He was a very interesting and well-rounded person!
It's great he was making these way back then and made them contemporary to his period!
They really aren't Dickeson issues, although they did use his dies to strike them. All total they have been used by 4-5 different issuers.
Some really strong prices on exonumia lately!
The pieces you posted are really cool overstrikes. Good to see you back, John
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
Good point @Maywood. They are his designs and dies, but they were restruck by others later.
The Peace Dollar Overstrike is attributed to Robert Bashlow and the gold double eagle overstrike is attributed to an unknown striker.
I wonder if these are the most restruck So-Called Dollar design, with the recent issue by Jeff Shevlin and Daniel Carr.
Agree. I wonder if the buyers are getting their money from other areas, like cryptocoins which have been very strong lately.
@Zoins said: I wonder if these are the most restruck So-Called Dollar design, with the recent issue by Jeff Shevlin and Daniel Carr.
Yes, they probably are. I think it is a poor commentary that these keep being produced just because people can find a market for them, a market that grows smaller with each re-strike. I am thinking these latest ones weren't even struck from the original dies, so they aren't a re-strike, reissue or anything like that, they'd be a copy. Is that right??
Some information here:
https://www.so-calleddollar.com/fixed-price-list/continental-dollar-restrikes/
A known, older overstrike on a $20:
https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-1B9GFW/1776-post-1876-continental-dollar-dickeson-copy-kenney-2-hk-852b-w-15650-gold-overstruck-on-an-1876-liberty-head-double-eagle
Notice how the rims are weak of missing, because the $20 was approximately 34.3 mm and the DIckeson dies were approximately 38 mm. Now look at the gold overstrike above. It must have used a LOT more pressure to expand the $20 that much.
Look at the Shevlin regular strikes and note that the "table" that the sundial is resting on is completely missing from the modern Shevlin-Carr dies. Now look at the overstrikes.
The prices in the HA auction seemed pretty strong. It would have been great to pick them up. I hope the buyer posts here!
My understanding is that were struck by dies made from the original hubs. @dcarr and @SoCalledGuy would have more info.
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The Shevlin Continental Dollar was entirely his offering. I was commissioned to strike them. He provided the hubs. I mounted them in my coin press with blank dies and basically "clashed" them intentionally to perform a hubbing process.
PS:
I recall a die being sold a couple years ago from the Fred Weinberg collection. That die is out there somewhere and I suppose that it could be used by someone. Although, considering the pretty high price paid for it, the owner might not want to risk damaging it. And, of course, they would need the die for the other side to strike anything. That die has the small "S" between the Delaware and Pennsylvania rings and presumably indicated strikes in silver:
https://coins.ha.com/itm/so-called-dollars/a/63183-91246.s?ic16
Note that the recently-sold over-strike on a 1925 Peace Silver Dollar has the "S", while the recently-sold Double Eagle over-strike does not.
The Shevlin die pair did not have the "S".
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Good catch.
Great info Dan. It's cool to be able to create new dies from original hubs, similar to how working dies were made from working hubs.
Additionally, it seems like Bashlow's work with August Conrad Frank may have used new working dies and new working hubs made from original dies so that Bashlow's pieces aren't struck from original 1870s dies and may be further away from the original artifacts than Dan and Jeff's pieces.
5 Carr Dollars with correct 13 State reverse as flipped over copper/brass
I just realized that there's just "~30" made from correct die pairing of my 4 overstrikes:
2 Ikes, Morgan & Peace.
Could somebody please post images of the two Stacks-Bowers overstrikes?
The overstrike on the 1925 Dollar. Have not had time to dig out my Empire/Bashlow pieces for comparison, but the obverse die has no remnant of the upper right corner of the table the sundial is sitting on, typical of pictures I have seen of the recent Carr-made obverses, and it seems to have the grainy surface I have seen on pictures of the recent Carr-made dies. The S-marked reverse die appears to be the die Bashlow used for his silver strikings. Will compare when I can.
Pictures courtesy of Heritage Auction archives.
The pictures of the overstrike on an 1887-S $20. Note the remnant of the upper-right corner of the table the sundial is sitting on, and the die scratch crossing the circle above the C of CONTINENTAL. I assume that this is a Bashlow striking, but it is different that another overstrike on a $20 commonly attributed to Bashlow. Note how the approx. 34.3 mm $20 is broadstruck almost to the edges of the approx. 38 mm Dollar dies. Now see the following on an 1876 $20.
Pictures courtesy of Heritage Auctions.
An overstrike on an 1876 $20 Sold by Stacks-Bowers on August 19th of this year. I saw this in another auction several decades ago, so it is not recent. It was commonly attributed to Bashlow. Note how the $20 was not squashed out so much, and the rim of the Continental Dollar dies is missing.
Pictures courtesy Stacks-Bowers Galleries.
Oops. Here is the lighter version of the reverse.
We posted about the 852a back in 2013: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/896653/check-out-this-neat-so-called-dollar
The original images are dead, but it's the same piece. That 852b is very cool.
OK< I will stand corrected on this one. I do not see the table remnants, but they might not have been struck because of the contours of the face on the understrike.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/896653/check-out-this-neat-so-called-dollar
Very nice! And a number of us posted in that thread over 10 years ago too!
Since that was your post, is there any possibility of finding those images?
Great photos Tom! Thanks for posting these! A lot of history and investigative potential!
I have to say the rich history of these made them some of the most confusing to understand So-Called Dollars when I was starting out!
@Zoins I found our backup images of the coin after we had it holdered a couple of years ago.
Thank you. I am perfectly happy with calling it a Bashlow strike now.
Here's an interesting bit, if Bashlow donated the dies to the Smithsonian, how did one end up in a Heritage sale?
Excellent! Great to have more history of this coin and be able to add your pedigree to it!
Do you have any other information on it, like previous owners?
Has anyone ever seen, or is there a record, of these dies at the Smithsonian?
Great Shevlin-Carr pieces @Mr Lindy ! Those are rare and I appreciate you sharing them