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Sheesh -- This One Slid Past

https://ebay.com/itm/1982-TOPPS-200-GEORGE-BRETT-ROYALS-HOF-PSA-10-B4170397-953/267048275395?nordt=true&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2349526.m43663.l10137

I wouldn't even submit this card with those back corners...most of the cards I submit these days have no or very few visible flaws, yet getting a 10 is like pulling teeth, yet this card with ugly corners gets a 10 (not to mention it sells for north of 1k)

Comments

  • 82FootballWaxMemorys82FootballWaxMemorys Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 19, 2024 6:05AM

    Census medians must be maintained, to that end, someone gets the 10's that must to be assigned

    It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)

  • olb31olb31 Posts: 3,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

    it's a consignment - is what I am usual told. LOL!!

    Work hard and you will succeed!!
  • BBBrkrrBBBrkrr Posts: 1,313 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Will they let you send in raw vintage so they can get graded themselves and send back to you? Asking for a friend...

  • 80sOPC80sOPC Posts: 1,370 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ok that was me lol.

    This is their card - I now, realize that cards that have a code at the end, that ends in the last few digits of the cert, are submitted by 4SC.

    @olb31 said:
    it's a consignment - is what I am usual told. LOL!!

  • 80sOPC80sOPC Posts: 1,370 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Been wondering the same, if they offer a grade then auction service. Wouldn’t be hard for them to pull off but they may have terms with PSA that don’t allow it.

    @BBBrkrr said:
    Will they let you send in raw vintage so they can get graded themselves and send back to you? Asking for a friend...

  • olb31olb31 Posts: 3,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

    it appears that a large number of 10's throughout the years, originate with a particular customer or three. Especially the ones that don't really appear to be 10's The brett above would get an 8 or 8.5 for most of us because of the back side corners. I doubt you could get a 9 with 3 off corners.

    I have received a few higher grades than I thought I should but, 95% of the time they are lower than I think they should be. I will admit after removing about 50 from the holders that alot of my 95% issues are not taking the time to look over the card properly. mainly surface issues.

    Work hard and you will succeed!!
  • GrooGroo Posts: 242 ✭✭✭
    edited November 19, 2024 10:05AM

    Huge clients, receive huge benefits.

    I work in Financial Services and our biggest clients get preferred treatment in all aspects, if not they will take their business somewhere else.

    Economics 101

  • There is really no somewhere else for vintage cards if you wanna win big. Be bigger.

    Enjoy the go.

  • BaltimoreYankeeBaltimoreYankee Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @olb31 said:

    "The Brett above would get an 8 or 8.5 for most of us because of the back side corners. I doubt you could get a 9 with 3 off corners."

    Yet someone paid almost $1,300 because the flip says '10'. EBay completed listings show PSA 9's sold for between $26-$40.

    Daniel
  • BBBrkrrBBBrkrr Posts: 1,313 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I promise if I sent that Brett in it's coming back as a 5 (or worse).

    I've had nicer cards than that come back as 5/6 a lot.

  • Yankees70Yankees70 Posts: 480 ✭✭✭

    The Brett looks better than the 79 Eckersley that 4SC received a 10 on. Obviously the Brett should be a 8 at best.

  • Poor old dead horse. :/

    Enjoy the go.

  • olb31olb31 Posts: 3,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Groo said:
    Huge clients, receive huge benefits.

    I work in Financial Services and our biggest clients get preferred treatment in all aspects, if not they will take their business somewhere else.

    Economics 101

    can't hurt your service though. everyone who collects sees the end product. giving someone preferential grading prices makes sense, but not just handing out high grades. hurts the pop report too. they've been doing this since 2008. it adds up over time.

    Work hard and you will succeed!!
  • olb31olb31 Posts: 3,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BaltimoreYankee said:

    @olb31 said:

    "The Brett above would get an 8 or 8.5 for most of us because of the back side corners. I doubt you could get a 9 with 3 off corners."

    Yet someone paid almost $1,300 because the flip says '10'. EBay completed listings show PSA 9's sold for between $26-$40.

    huge advantage for your top client. think if we both bought apple stock for the same price and same number of shares on the same day and we decided to sell the same day at the same time-- however since i'm a better client than you i receive $5,000 more cash than you--would that make sense or be fair?

    Work hard and you will succeed!!
  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,881 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @olb31 said:

    @BaltimoreYankee said:

    @olb31 said:

    "The Brett above would get an 8 or 8.5 for most of us because of the back side corners. I doubt you could get a 9 with 3 off corners."

    Yet someone paid almost $1,300 because the flip says '10'. EBay completed listings show PSA 9's sold for between $26-$40.

    huge advantage for your top client. think if we both bought apple stock for the same price and same number of shares on the same day and we decided to sell the same day at the same time-- however since i'm a better client than you i receive $5,000 more cash than you--would that make sense or be fair?

    I don't understand your example.

    All companies like guaranteed business. If someone commits to bringing in a lot of work for an extended period of time, they are going to get some kind of deal.

    Not to mention the orders are going to be easier to process than some of the goofy stuff people send in.

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,703 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @olb31 said:

    @BaltimoreYankee said:

    @olb31 said:

    "The Brett above would get an 8 or 8.5 for most of us because of the back side corners. I doubt you could get a 9 with 3 off corners."

    Yet someone paid almost $1,300 because the flip says '10'. EBay completed listings show PSA 9's sold for between $26-$40.

    huge advantage for your top client. think if we both bought apple stock for the same price and same number of shares on the same day and we decided to sell the same day at the same time-- however since i'm a better client than you i receive $5,000 more cash than you--would that make sense or be fair?

    I agree with Joe. This analogy makes absolutely no sense.

    Given your feelings about PSA, I'm frankly surprised you even collect their cards.



    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • Kepper19Kepper19 Posts: 345 ✭✭✭

    @JoeBanzai said:

    @olb31 said:

    @BaltimoreYankee said:

    @olb31 said:

    "The Brett above would get an 8 or 8.5 for most of us because of the back side corners. I doubt you could get a 9 with 3 off corners."

    Yet someone paid almost $1,300 because the flip says '10'. EBay completed listings show PSA 9's sold for between $26-$40.

    huge advantage for your top client. think if we both bought apple stock for the same price and same number of shares on the same day and we decided to sell the same day at the same time-- however since i'm a better client than you i receive $5,000 more cash than you--would that make sense or be fair?

    I don't understand your example.

    All companies like guaranteed business. If someone commits to bringing in a lot of work for an extended period of time, they are going to get some kind of deal.

    Not to mention the orders are going to be easier to process than some of the goofy stuff people send in.

    Personally, I am fine with 4-S-C getting a discounted rate since they grade so many cards, but what isn't fine is them getting 10's on so many cards that have no business getting a 10. Sure, we all get some, but the sliders I rarely get are at least a 9...I have seen many cards submitted by these big submitters get 10's , when they clearly should have been 8 or lower...that is not a good look for PSA and people rightfully so aren't happy. We can't see what discounted price 4-S-C or others get, which is how it should be, but we CAN see the preferential grades they appear to get, which is not a good look and yes, unfair. We've been told graders don't know who submitted cards, but that is hard to believe...maybe they see an order with 1k cards or more in it and just assume it is from a big submitter, or perhaps there is a post-it on it telling the grader "you know what to do"

  • olb31olb31 Posts: 3,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Kepper19 gets it. Cut them some slack on the costs, but grade the same for everyone. The brett is a great example. they realized nearly $1500 for that card when you or I would get about $30. I have no problem if they give 4 sharp 50% of on the grading, sounds fine with me, grade a lot of cards get a discount.

    Work hard and you will succeed!!
  • The assembly line is going to miss stuff. Happens every time. The company some of you choose to complain about has been sending in more cards to PSA than the rest of us combined. The cards flow through the system like water. In a production environment, when there's a flaw with the product, a recall gets initiated. Doesn't happen here though. It's just cards. The people who bid on them should be well educated enough to know what they are seeing, especially a knicked corner on the reverse side of a card. They buy it anyways. We have no control over that. Let 'em fly.

    The funniest thing about this thread is that it's a 20+ year-old complaint about the exact same company for the exact same reason, which means the conjecture is probably old enough to start legally drinking.

    Enjoy the go.

  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,881 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What killed it for me was when I ripped a box of 1986 Topps rack and got a STUNNING Nolan Ryan. Perfectly centered, just a perfect card. Worth $1,000.00 at the time.
    Got a 9.

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • sayheywyosayheywyo Posts: 504 ✭✭✭✭

    I'm sure someone else has checked this........... surrounding certs that also received a 10. Include: Ryan ( 2 '84 Topps, 2 '81 Fleer) Henderson (2 '81 Fleer, 1 '82 Topps) '81 Topps (Schmidt, Winfield, Garvey).

  • GrooGroo Posts: 242 ✭✭✭

    If PSA is not providing preferential treatment to their largest client, I offer them kudos for being the only for profit firm in USA history not to do so.

  • olb31olb31 Posts: 3,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JoeBanzai said:
    What killed it for me was when I ripped a box of 1986 Topps rack and got a STUNNING Nolan Ryan. Perfectly centered, just a perfect card. Worth $1,000.00 at the time.
    Got a 9.

    yep. mind blowing.

    Work hard and you will succeed!!
  • olb31olb31 Posts: 3,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

    years ago, I was the first person to get a PSA 10 on a 1989 opc randy johnson, in fact i received the first 2 10's. this was about 2013 or 2014. So for 24 years I am the only one. now there are about 60, PSA 10's, and most don't look like the two I have. This is were some of us are frustrated. Not sayng that many of these couldn't be 10's and of course a bunch probably are, but to go that long without any 10's, and now there are so many. It's crazy.

    Kind of off topic, I sent in a barry bonds 1987 opc to psa and sgc. the card looks almost perfect a 9 at minimum, probably could be a 10, but both times it came back trimmed. I have the card for a very long time, when i purchased it a psa 10 was selling for $100, kind of like a topps bonds now. I have never trimmed the card. the conspiracy theorist that I am makes me think they just don't want to give me a 9 or 10 on the card. i doubt seriously it has ever been trimmed and certainly doesn't look it has.

    Work hard and you will succeed!!
  • 80sOPC80sOPC Posts: 1,370 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Post the Bonds please, that card is very tough.

    One thing to consider with 4SC is they grade as many or more cards than anyone else so their number of overgrades will be significant.

    I’m starting to believe that new grading is inconsistent more than anything else. I am back buying in a big way and the stuff I am following, there are LOTS of new certs with over-graded cards.

    Here is a card I’m chasing, a new cert, that is frankly hard on the eyes, not a 4SC card. Violent tilt and off T/B:

  • olb31olb31 Posts: 3,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

    i would get a 6.

    Work hard and you will succeed!!
  • DarinDarin Posts: 7,201 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That Ray Bourque card would be scary without the tilt and oc.
    I would say it’s the ghost of Ray Bourque but I looked it up and thankfully he’s still with us.👍

  • 80sOPC80sOPC Posts: 1,370 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 20, 2024 4:12PM

    Olb - share a pic of the Bonds that should 9/10. I’m obsessed with that card and would love to see it.

  • olb31olb31 Posts: 3,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @80sOPC said:
    Olb - share a pic of the Bonds that should 9/10. I’m obsessed with that card and would love to see it.

    I will put it up this weekend. Busy tonight.

    Work hard and you will succeed!!
  • gorilla glue 4gorilla glue 4 Posts: 148 ✭✭✭✭

    How much did it sale for is one of the funniest and most ignorant things I've ever heard.

  • jordangretzkyfanjordangretzkyfan Posts: 2,473 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Oof…and poorly trimmed to boot.

  • Factory miscue. But, yeah. Ugly. :p

    Enjoy the go.

  • BBBrkrrBBBrkrr Posts: 1,313 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hilarious

  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,703 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I sure hope that's a mechanical error.



    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • bgrbgr Posts: 1,862 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The scans are online also. I looked at it and don’t think the centering is as bad as it appears and is borderline 9. That said there is a corner (top left front) with an issue. That’s not a good grade.


  • 82FootballWaxMemorys82FootballWaxMemorys Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2024 8:21AM

    Note the submitter is their largest client. No surprise on the grade, no surprise at all. Also no surprise that some buy the flip not the card rich boy will pay full or more than FMV for it.

    It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)

  • shagrotn77shagrotn77 Posts: 5,597 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2024 11:32AM

    I've seen much worse than that '82 Brett. This one still takes the cake:

    The entire right side of the card is missing! And this is a 10...that sold for $456???

    This is what it should look like:

    "My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
  • Kepper19Kepper19 Posts: 345 ✭✭✭

    @shagrotn77 said:
    I've seen much worse than that '82 Brett. This one still takes the cake:

    The entire right side of the card is missing! And this is a 10...that sold for $456???

    This is what it should look like:

    it is amazing that buyers have no clue that a quarter of an inch of the card is missing and yet they pay thru the nose for that Eli card (but what does it say about the fact it got graded a 10?)

  • HarnessracingHarnessracing Posts: 425 ✭✭✭

    How about some pictures of undergraded cards? There is going to be issues on both sides of the coin when human decisions are involved.

  • Yankees70Yankees70 Posts: 480 ✭✭✭

    @Harnessracing said:
    How about some pictures of undergraded cards? There is going to be issues on both sides of the coin when human decisions are involved.

    There's ample examples of some of the other threads. Lots of mid 70 to late 70 cards graded 5 and 6 that have 4 sharp corners and good centering. Appears they received lower grades because of microscopic surface issues.

  • HarnessracingHarnessracing Posts: 425 ✭✭✭

    You’re kidding really? PSA made a mistake? Of course they do, buy the card not the holder. If someone wants to buy an overgraded card that’s their problem. There are always going to be examples on both sides

  • 80sOPC80sOPC Posts: 1,370 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Agreed, over-graded cards would only be a problem if I didn’t have sight, at which point collecting would lose a lot of my interest.

    Under-graded cards, that other folks graded, are fantastic.

  • All future matters regarding the improper grading of cards can be referred directly to my legal representative, Mr. Debatin' Manning.

    Enjoy the go.

  • bgrbgr Posts: 1,862 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I can't say for sure, but I think it's likely that there is a process trend towards under-grading more so than over-grading, so I can't accept the argument that over-grading isn't an issue merely because PSA does make mistakes. From a collector perspective, I completely agree with the 'buy the card... not the..." mantra, but I can see how other perspectives cause some consternation here, especially when the difference between a 9 and a 10 can be a rather ridiculous multiplier. Further, I think that the issue of there being a uneven distribution of over-graded vs. under-graded isn't a concern so long as the magnitude of that distribution is mostly unchanging. I think the discussion is valid because there's at least some evidence pointing to stricter grading in general along with the expected inconsistency introduced with people and, to a lesser extent, technology. I do think that consistency is getting better and perhaps that's a result of the likely change in process trends to lean towards under-grading.

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