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The talks between the Red Sox and Juan Soto are heating up.

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  • MCMLVToppsMCMLVTopps Posts: 4,860 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Well, at least a couple of posters got the general gist of my post. It was not intended to portray players as literally doing nothing. Surely they try to hone their skills, and I certainly think there would be more than ample time a few hours per week or so to learn the tax implications of their trade during their free time. I would think even while playing there is time to learn, can't be that hard.

    As an example, I was an Air Traffic Controller for seven years. I was fully certified in 3 different facilities, however, I often times was found reading the ATC manual, both at home and when not on position at work. I never wanted to be in a situation that I couldn't instantly figure out or quickly formulate a solution that was safe and effective. How many times I watched others "go down the tube" because their attitude was "I'm checked out, why should I study more". I never had an incident in those 7 years, and I attribute that to knowing the ATC manual cold.

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 11,348 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I a hearing Soto's decision could be coming soon. I really don't want to get too invested before he chooses, but it sure is difficult not to think about the possibilities. Would this be the biggest FA signing since Manny?

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 3,634 ✭✭✭✭✭

    His offers are supposedly over 600 million at this point and I seriously doubt he will be deferring anywhere close to as much money as Othani did. But yea a lot of people expect him to make his decision next week

    Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007

  • tommyrusty7tommyrusty7 Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2024 9:03AM

    At this point in time he should be deciding WHO he wants to PLAY FOR and not for how much money he wants to make as no matter who he goes to he will be a very rich young man! I hope its the Red Sox!

  • tommyrusty7tommyrusty7 Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭✭

    I am beginning to think that Soto is just waiting to see just how high a bid he can get.
    The bids are so high right now he could pick the team he wants to play for and live quite well.
    I can not make up my mind about who is more greedy the owners or the players or the agents.

  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 3,634 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The players have no obligation to take small salaries so that the owners can make a larger profit. Soto has been very clear for a long time that hes going to sign with where ever he will make the most money. That doesnt necessarily mean the highest offer given state taxes or how much money is deferred in the offers.

    Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007

  • tommyrusty7tommyrusty7 Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭✭

    The owners are going to make the money regardless or they would not be in the business. Most of the players today know they are not going to be around for many years so they need to get as much as they can while they can. Not many of them last 10 yrs in the business to qualify for the pensions. The big thing now for the best players is the opt out clause and it makes them work harder early on in a contract so they can get out of their present contract and make a killing on a future contract. The agents love those and the fans and owners hate them.

  • tommyrusty7tommyrusty7 Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭✭

    I am a diehard Red Sox fan and don't want to see the Red Sox commit to a 700 + million dollar deal for Juan Soto. There are too many things that can happen to player in a season to tie up that kind of money. Pick up a couple of front line pitchers and see what happens. They have a good young nucleus of players to work with. The Mets or the Yankees can have him if he feels he is worth that kind of money.

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 11,348 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tommyrusty7 I can certainly see your point of view. I think that for me, there are no players on the current team that move the needle. Not one player do I feel like I need to stay in front of the tube to watch their at bat or the inning they are pitching. It would be fun to have another exciting guy like that on the team. I used to love watching Boggs, Rice, Greenwell, Rocket, Pedro, Manny, Ortiz etc.

    to me, it seems the current team is pretty vanilla with no compelling player. plus, I really don't care how much John Henry pays for players.

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 3,634 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I agree that who ever gives Soto 600+ will regret it. Hes already bad defensively and that will only get worse. I'm also not convinced that his age is actually accurate.

    The New York teams seem to be the favorite for him right now and the Dodgers kind of out of it unless he will do it on their terms of heavily deferred money like they have been doing with everyone else

    Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007

  • tommyrusty7tommyrusty7 Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭✭

    Some say $700 million for a great player will be cheap in a few years but when that player goes down with an injury the team goes down also. It takes 25 to 40 players to make up a team and when one of them gets most of the available money the team needs a dependable replacement.
    I too don't care what Henry spends but how do you replace a Juan Soto?

  • MCMLVToppsMCMLVTopps Posts: 4,860 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I really don't care what Soto does, however, I will predict he signs with the Red Sox.
    The Red Sox are and have been deep with Dominican players, some, if not many, have talked with Soto to influence him to sign with the Fenway team. Devers, and Ortiz perhaps being the most bending his ear, not to mention he's said on more than one occasion that he wanted to play in Boston.

    I can't fault Soto from grabbing the biggest bag of money he can, but at some point millions upon millions must become moot and there isn't much between offers. I think he'd be a positive for the Red Sox, but he might not turn out to be all he's touted to be. Let's just call it the curse of Red Sox contracts, the list is long.

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,845 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Starting to think this contract money is not realistically good lol

  • tommyrusty7tommyrusty7 Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 5, 2024 6:33PM

    Sounds like Henry is getting sick of the bidding between clubs! He now is saying he wants to pay for Sotos services and Soto wants to play in Boston. What is it going to take to seal the deal? In other words shit or get off the pot! He needs 2 GOOD starting pitchers to even competent year so he should make that his top priority!

  • pdoidoipdoidoi Posts: 668 ✭✭✭✭

    Should have kept Mookie. The Red Sox thought it was too much $$$$$$.

  • tommyrusty7tommyrusty7 Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭✭

    Too much $$$$$$ again but this time it was the right decision.
    Soto is a good player but not a great player.
    We need pitching not a mediocre outfielder for too much $$$$$$.

  • 1948_Swell_Robinson1948_Swell_Robinson Posts: 1,976 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Basebal21 said:
    I agree that who ever gives Soto 600+ will regret it. Hes already bad defensively and that will only get worse. I'm also not convinced that his age is actually accurate.

    I agree.

    There is also the possibility he will get fat or lazy in a few years.

  • MCMLVToppsMCMLVTopps Posts: 4,860 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Soto Takes Home More Cash in Boston Due to Tax Laws
    Due to the “millionaire’s tax” law in Massachusetts passed in 2022, the state charges a 5 percent flat tax rate on all income up to $1 million, and then tacks on a 4 percent surtax for income exceeding $1 million.

    My thing is that there is no incentive to excel. If you have guaranteed money, maybe that extra little zip in your step isn't always there. Paying a baseball player, no matter what his skills are and no matter if he works out 12 hours a day in the off season, a mind-numbing salary of close to, if not more, $50M per season, which equates to $308,641 per game is sheer insanity.

    If he hits 40+ HRs and has 100 RBIs, that doesn't mean his efforts win every game, nor that he would hit that well. He's a medicore defensive player. I still think given the input from his Dominican associates and the sweet tax deal in MA, that the Red Sox will sign him.

    I think the Red Sox are missing the boat on not focusing on pitching, something they sorely need.
    $600M +/- would be better invested in this endeavor than chasing Soto.

  • bgrbgr Posts: 1,872 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Is it a sweet tax deal because the headline said "Soto Takes Home More Cash in Boston..." because the reality is different - I wouldn't call it a sweet tax deal.

    I have no idea whether he would sign with Boston, whether, if he did, it would turn out to be a good or bad contract, or whether, if he did, they would not continue to pursue signing other players, including pitchers. But I don't think that 4% surcharge is a good tax deal for someone who's making what he would be in Boston. It's also possible this becomes moot again after 2025, but we'll have to see what Congress does.

    I agree with your premise though. I think a guy like Soto is a luxury that a team like the Red Sox doesn't need, and it doesn't help them become more competitive. From an ownership perspective, I think that they could pay Soto whatever he wants and come out ahead financially. I think they should sign Burnes. That guy reminds me of Clemens.

  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 3,634 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @1948_Swell_Robinson said:

    @Basebal21 said:
    I agree that who ever gives Soto 600+ will regret it. Hes already bad defensively and that will only get worse. I'm also not convinced that his age is actually accurate.

    I agree.

    There is also the possibility he will get fat or lazy in a few years.

    I could definitely see that happening given that hes already fairly lazy in the OF already

    Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007

  • tommyrusty7tommyrusty7 Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭✭

    It's sounding like its between the Red Sox and Mets with an announcement by this weekend!
    John Henry really likes this guy!

  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 9,317 ✭✭✭✭✭

    1st or 2nd year of that contract I can see him slumping. Not sure why, just a feeling. I remember the signings of Jason Giambi and Hideki Matsui by the Yankees. When their respective contracts made the headlines. Though not failures, I don't think they realized the career that many expected for the size of those contracts.

    Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
  • 1948_Swell_Robinson1948_Swell_Robinson Posts: 1,976 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BLUEJAYWAY said:
    1st or 2nd year of that contract I can see him slumping. Not sure why, just a feeling. I remember the signings of Jason Giambi and Hideki Matsui by the Yankees. When their respective contracts made the headlines. Though not failures, I don't think they realized the career that many expected for the size of those contracts.

    The White Sox trio of Robert, Moncada, and Eloy all signed long term deals while young. They were always hurt and they actually regressed skill wise. They got lazy. No incentive. It is a tough thing to navigate when choosing who to give that type of money and commitment to

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,845 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @1948_Swell_Robinson said:

    @BLUEJAYWAY said:
    1st or 2nd year of that contract I can see him slumping. Not sure why, just a feeling. I remember the signings of Jason Giambi and Hideki Matsui by the Yankees. When their respective contracts made the headlines. Though not failures, I don't think they realized the career that many expected for the size of those contracts.

    The White Sox trio of Robert, Moncada, and Eloy all signed long term deals while young. They were always hurt and they actually regressed skill wise. They got lazy. No incentive. It is a tough thing to navigate when choosing who to give that type of money and commitment to

    Luis Robert I think his name is, I thought he was going to be a beast last season but he definitely wasn't

  • 1948_Swell_Robinson1948_Swell_Robinson Posts: 1,976 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @perkdog said:

    @1948_Swell_Robinson said:

    @BLUEJAYWAY said:
    1st or 2nd year of that contract I can see him slumping. Not sure why, just a feeling. I remember the signings of Jason Giambi and Hideki Matsui by the Yankees. When their respective contracts made the headlines. Though not failures, I don't think they realized the career that many expected for the size of those contracts.

    The White Sox trio of Robert, Moncada, and Eloy all signed long term deals while young. They were always hurt and they actually regressed skill wise. They got lazy. No incentive. It is a tough thing to navigate when choosing who to give that type of money and commitment to

    Luis Robert I think his name is, I thought he was going to be a beast last season but he definitely wasn't

    Yes. He regressed. They tried to trade him and nobody wanted him(at least for anything of significance). It is a terrible organization. Young hitters don't develop there. It is bad.

  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 3,634 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The Robert, Moncada, Eloy trio I think theres more going on there than getting paid. Mondcada is just kind of what he is, people expected him to get way better and he just didnt. Eloy was always bad in the OF and his bat was supposed to make up for it. Roberts had the career year which set expectations to high for him.

    As mentioned thats just a dumpster fire of an organization and its hard to really try every day when youre coming in last anyways and your manager is sleeping off a hangover in the dugout. For two of them though theres also the fact that Cuban players get overvalued. Theres some talent there but the majority that come over fail. Its a decent sized island without a lot of modern training. The bust rate is very high and basically taking someone from a single A level league and throwing them into the MLB

    Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007

  • tommyrusty7tommyrusty7 Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭✭

    Who ever wins Soto loses the battle in my opinion.
    Boros is playing these teams like a fiddle!
    Quit playing his game, run, don't walk away!
    There is still pitching talent out there just waiting to be picked up!
    Red Sox should grab some of it before its all gone!

  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 3,634 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Red Sox have asked for another meeting to try and a final number of what it will take for Soto. Boras will probably take the meeting but I doubt he will give a final number. Its better for Soto to have teams guessing and possibly be bidding against themselves

    Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007

  • tommyrusty7tommyrusty7 Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭✭

    Let someone else have him. The Red Sox have been hamstrung with enough players like him over the years. He is most likely going to want an opt out clause on it too. If he does well he will use it and want more money and the scary part is he wont do well and the Sox will be saddled with 13 years of another zombie!

  • bgrbgr Posts: 1,872 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Red Sox fans should be celebrating tonight! Dodged a bullet.

  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 3,634 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Red Sox and other teams should be thanking the Mets for such a dumb contract to sign Soto

    Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007

  • MCMLVToppsMCMLVTopps Posts: 4,860 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bgr said:
    Red Sox fans should be celebrating tonight! Dodged a bullet.

    @Basebal21 said:
    Red Sox and other teams should be thanking the Mets for such a dumb contract to sign Soto

    100% agree!!!

  • tommyrusty7tommyrusty7 Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭✭

    Owners are not going to be happy as it just drives up the costs of signing players!

  • tommyrusty7tommyrusty7 Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭✭

    The Red Sox should give Bergman a massive contract now that Soto is off the board. Then they can put Devers at DH replacing Mas who someone will take off their hands.

  • MCMLVToppsMCMLVTopps Posts: 4,860 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Masataka is yet another classic Red Sox failure...and the facts are:

    2023 he got paid $15.6m, with a signing bonus of $3m. He hit 15 hrs, and 72 rbis. Played in 140 games.
    2024 he got paid $18m, hit 10 hrs and 56 rbis. Played in 108 games. For 54 games in 2024, he did nothing to help the team win games, with a thumb and shoulder "injuries" He'll be due $18m for 2025, 2026, and 2027.

    It would appear he's regressing, not improving. BTW, the brain trust of the Red Sox also ponied up a posting fee of $15.375m.

    What a COLOSSAL FAILURE He'll eventually be gotten rid of and the Red Sox will endure yet another dumb contract.

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 11,348 ✭✭✭✭✭

    the last half of the soto contract could be epically bad.

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

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