i don't understand this grade ...

WingedLiberty1957

I am shocked this coin with, what I would call terminal black toning on the obverse, got an MS68 grade. Guide price $9,000, I thought that black toning will start eating into the coins surface sooner rather than later. Isn't this an end-of-life coin? In any case, its not very eye appealing, at least to my eye. Perhaps others like it more than me?

jacrispies

Market grading at its finest.

logger7

Whoever got that one graded sure must be smiling. Though I don't see the arguments about "terminal" toning evidence-based in most cases but unreal projections.

keyman64

The photo looks over exposed as well. I am guessing the toning is very dark in areas, close to black, if not black. When the toning eats through the luster layer of a coin, I consider it to be a damaged coin. Not for me.

airplanenut

Is this a recently graded piece? While past TVs definitely made coins look too good sometimes, the more recent ones have gone the other way. It is possible for this toning to have bright lustre beneath it, and when that happens, it can be really appealing. That said, I don’t know how to read the photo. I’ll defer to the graders that held it, though as photographed, I agree that at the very least it probably shouldn’t be earning extra points for eye appeal. I’d also like to see brighter colors on the reverse (or nothing) versus the rather dull ones in the photo.

Connecticoin

That grade was a massive gift.

wondercoin

Coin just sold Sunday at GC. Check out Phil’s pics. I had no role in any side of the buy or sell of the GC coin. But, obviously I saw it.

Wondercoin.

gumby1234

I just went to coinfacts to look and highest grade listed there is 67+ with a pop of 3 and noticed my dime is the One pictured WHOO HOO. Must be a newly graded coin in Op post, but I definitely prefer mine.

david3142

This coin was previously a 67+FB so that jump to 68FB netted someone about $8K. It looks quite nice in Phil’s GC images. Not nearly as terminal as seen here.

gumby1234

The OP coin is on a different page for FB but I still prefer mine.

braddick

@wondercoin said:
Coin just sold Sunday at GC. Check out Phil’s pics. I had no role in any side of the buy or sell of the GC coin. But, obviously I saw it.

Wondercoin.

coinbuf

Yuck is the only word that comes to mind. And some here still continue to deny gradeflation.

Connecticoin

The GC photo does not make the coin look any better. It has MS68 "Godzilla" toning in the center of the obverse, but IMO that should not be enough to carry the rest of the coin. 67+ seemed a stretch to me as well.

rays

@WingedLiberty1957 said:
I am shocked this coin with, what I would call terminal black toning on the obverse, got an MS68 grade. Guide price $9,000, I thought that black toning will start eating into the coins surface sooner rather than later. Isn't this an end-of-life coin? In any case, its not very eye appealing, at least to my eye. Perhaps others like it more than me?

Unless you’ve seen the coin in hand, you don’t know if the peripheral obverse toning is “terminal black”, nor whether the MS68 grade assigned by PCGS is appropriate. Based upon the auction result, at least two bidders thought the coin worth nearly $11k.

robec

@airplanenut said:
Is this a recently graded piece? While past TVs definitely made coins look too good sometimes, the more recent ones have gone the other way. It is possible for this toning to have bright lustre beneath it, and when that happens, it can be really appealing. That said, I don’t know how to read the photo. I’ll defer to the graders that held it, though as photographed, I agree that at the very least it probably shouldn’t be earning extra points for eye appeal. I’d also like to see brighter colors on the reverse (or nothing) versus the rather dull ones in the photo.

It sold in April as a 67+FB. Before that it was NGC 67*.

Steven59

It's a picture - show me the coin in hand!

jacrispies

@robec said:

@airplanenut said:
Is this a recently graded piece? While past TVs definitely made coins look too good sometimes, the more recent ones have gone the other way. It is possible for this toning to have bright lustre beneath it, and when that happens, it can be really appealing. That said, I don’t know how to read the photo. I’ll defer to the graders that held it, though as photographed, I agree that at the very least it probably shouldn’t be earning extra points for eye appeal. I’d also like to see brighter colors on the reverse (or nothing) versus the rather dull ones in the photo.

It sold in April as a 67+FB. Before that it was NGC 67*.

This is the story of many high grade modern and type coins that run through auction nowadays. Somehow they inch up the grade ladder and people pay more and more.

Keep your eyes peeled for this dime to be in a CACG 68+ holder next time around!!!

RobertScotLover

I wonder if it is instead of black but just dark greenish plus other minor colors. Also a lot of the members talk about terminal toning being described as black toning. I think differently about that simple definition, if the toning is thin and you can see the surfaces of the coin rhubarb the toning then it should not be called terminal. To me terminal toning is when it is black and one is unable to see thru the toning. Hopefully what I wrote is understandable, its late here lol.
BTW this coin is a coin that if I collected Roosevelts I would pass on it without question because to me I only like the bullseye

Cougar1978

The grade on the OP coin is a foregone conclusion. What I wonder is can it bring the $9,000? Perhaps so with a toner hobbyist.

jmlanzaf

@Cougar1978 said:
The grade on the OP coin is a foregone conclusion. What I wonder is can it bring the $9,000? Perhaps so with a toner hobbyist.

It sold for over $10k.... if you read the thread

MFeld

@WingedLiberty1957 said:
I am shocked this coin with, what I would call terminal black toning on the obverse, got an MS68 grade. Guide price $9,000, I thought that black toning will start eating into the coins surface sooner rather than later. Isn't this an end-of-life coin? In any case, its not very eye appealing, at least to my eye. Perhaps others like it more than me?

And while I'm not shocked, I’m surprised that you and some other posters have reached conclusions about terminal toning and/or the appropriate grade for the coin without having seen it in hand.

jmlanzaf

@MFeld said:

@WingedLiberty1957 said:
I am shocked this coin with, what I would call terminal black toning on the obverse, got an MS68 grade. Guide price $9,000, I thought that black toning will start eating into the coins surface sooner rather than later. Isn't this an end-of-life coin? In any case, its not very eye appealing, at least to my eye. Perhaps others like it more than me?

And while I'm not shocked, I’m surprised that you and some other posters have reached conclusions about terminal toning and/or the appropriate grade for the coin without having seen it in hand.

I'm not at all surprised. It actually doesn't look like terminal black to me even in the picture. But we specialize in snap judgments and stubbornness.

DoubleEagle59

Xmas came early this year.

WingedLiberty1957

I would certainly pass on that coin, esp at 10k. I dont find it beautiful at all. So many other coins i'd rather have for that kind of outlay. But to each their own, right?

tcollects

this is a canary in the coalmine moment, and that dime was retrieved from a coalmine

OldeTowneCoinShoppe

Going by images alone, the NGC grade made much more sense.

golden

Not a coin that I would want.

fathom

In hand or not it is very dark. Easy to establish that is a dark duck by the duck test.

If you play the condition rarity game you walk the high wire act of demand vs. value long term.

Married2Coins

@rays said:

@WingedLiberty1957 said:
I am shocked this coin with, what I would call terminal black toning on the obverse, got an MS68 grade. Guide price $9,000, I thought that black toning will start eating into the coins surface sooner rather than later. Isn't this an end-of-life coin? In any case, its not very eye appealing, at least to my eye. Perhaps others like it more than me?

Unless you’ve seen the coin in hand, you don’t know if the peripheral obverse toning is “terminal black”, nor whether the MS68 grade assigned by PCGS is appropriate. Based upon the auction result, at least two bidders thought the coin worth nearly $11k.

I know black soot corrosion when I see it in a terrific image. As for the two bidders, we live in a sorta free country so I'm sad for both the winner and the loser. I will say the coin looks like a pretty black opal.

PerryHall

@Married2Coins said:

@rays said:

@WingedLiberty1957 said:
I am shocked this coin with, what I would call terminal black toning on the obverse, got an MS68 grade. Guide price $9,000, I thought that black toning will start eating into the coins surface sooner rather than later. Isn't this an end-of-life coin? In any case, its not very eye appealing, at least to my eye. Perhaps others like it more than me?

Unless you’ve seen the coin in hand, you don’t know if the peripheral obverse toning is “terminal black”, nor whether the MS68 grade assigned by PCGS is appropriate. Based upon the auction result, at least two bidders thought the coin worth nearly $11k.

I know black soot corrosion when I see it in a terrific image. As for the two bidders, we live in a sorta free country so I'm sad for both the winner and the loser. I will say the coin looks like a pretty black opal.

In some auctions, the underbidder is the actual winner of that auction.