PCGS Details scratched. How much discount?
Vetter
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I need some opinions on how much you think the scratch across the Indian affects the value. I know some of you would never consider a damaged coin for purchase but those who would, what % below retail do you think would be fair? Considering the damage is on the obv. and not on the important 3 leg side.
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I always try to get 50-60% of retail.
The issue with 'Details' coins is the price must be low enough to entice a (very small) buyer pool not to save up for a problem-free coin.
Did you research auction archives and look for any “scratched” example results?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Fortunately the error is on the reverse and the scratch is on the obverse.
If the scratch were on the reverse I'm sure it would have even more of an affect on the value.
I think it's a pretty good example of this error.
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Assuming a consistent percentage is nearly impossible. As Mr. Feld mentioned, look up sold auction listings on Stack's, Heritage, or Ebay to match your coin with a similar example. That will be your most accurate option.
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I checked the Heritage auction archives and saw several VF-AU examples sold in 2023-2024.
You can enter "three legged scratch" as your search and select Buffalo Nickels for the category.
This is often, if not usually a far better way to determine an approximate value than using a percentage of a straight grade example. The latter will often result in a bad result.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Thanks Mark. I will do that.
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Try the link below for results. I tried to post them all together but wasn’t able to.
https://coins.ha.com/c/search/results.zx?term=three+legged+scratch&si=2&dept=1909&archive_state=5327&sold_status=1526&mode=archive&page=200~1&sb=5&ic4=SortBy-071515
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Calling @ProofCollection for his opinion.
Also to answer your question I agree with @constitutional_halve on his pricing perspective. As for the look I think it’s very minor if you’re ok with buying coins that are not straight graded. Would be neat if the reverse of the coin was mounted forward in the holder.
A potential pitfall with this approach is that all scratches are different as far as depth, length, location, and severity. You have to be careful not to compare apples to oranges using this approach.
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Agreed. However, the alternative a general value percentage of straight graded coins can be a larger pitfall. And it doesn't even offer the possibility of an apples to apples comparison. Or for that matter, not even an apples to grapes or watermelon one.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Outside a totally generic example of something, that's always the case. Search results will contain monster toners and super undergraded old holders that drive up the bids, and if you don't look beyond the date and grade, you won't see it. But if you have a number of examples, you can look through them and build a trend based on how they compare to the specific coin of interest.
Flip it in the holder.
50% of Price Guide
Based upon what?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I would use MFeld's approach and use market data the best you can. You lose a ton of market who don't want or won't look at Details coins. Also factor in how bad it looks. I actually don't think that coin looks too bad but it's not like you won't notice it. 50% is probably about right based on a gut feel but you might be able to get 70% depending on how patient you are. Again just gut feelings and I don't have a lot of experience with Details coins as I do ignore them.
The biggest issue with 'Details coins' is the patience. You've effectively cut out the market looking to purchase an ungraded(or under-graded) coin to submit or flip. You've also cut out an entire market of buyers who won't even look at them for their collection, AND the entirety of registry collectors.
(Detail coins).
So you're left with bargain hunters, who already look at the coin as limited and damaged, or the uninitiated. (+ a small percentage of RAW collectors who already deal well under established retail prices [for most collectible/liquid series]).
Selling for near retail or 75% of retail IS possible, but it WILL take patience.
Straight graded coins are much much much more liquid, even at much much lower price points and grades.
If you've only ever purchased detail graded coins, and not yet attempted to sell them, be prepared for a rude awakening.
I would be clueless on what to discount a scratched coin for. Not a fan of them nor would want have in inventory long time. Perhaps a problem coin specialist can weigh in. Me - Would just blow it out - start it in auction at 99c plus shipping let the bidders decide.
In general, I used to pay about 70% of PCGS Price Guide retail for PCGS straight graded coins. Gold coins were usually more than that, about 80% or so. If I were buying a silver or nickel details coin, in general, I would not want to pay more than 50% of PCGS retail.
You pay 70% for straight and 50% for details. Don't you think a mere 30% discount as a "general rule" is a little too generous?
Too bad, but for many collectors most coins that don’t straight grade aren’t even considered.
Auction results for problem free XF40's are in the $700's on the low end. I would assume this one to be worth about half that on the wholesale market.
I have a gorgeous straight graded 1799 eagle I would be happy to sell to you at 80% of PCGS price guide.
There is very little spread between grades so rather than a discount from the price it makes more sense to think about a reasonable net grade based on the severity of the problem. The scratch on the OP’s coin isn’t too bad and given that a VF details with a much worse scratch just sold for $528 and another at $504, you are too low.
This XF 45 - scratched and cleaned - ANACS coin sold for $630 last year:
1937-D 5C Three-Legged -- Cleaned, Scratched -- ANACS XF45 Details. Mintage 17,826,000.... https://coins.ha.com/itm/buffalo-nickels/1937-d-5c-three-legged-cleaned-scratched-anacs-xf45-details-mintage-17-826-000/a/132323-21142.s
A problem free VG is basically a $500 coin. These are always desirable, even in a dreaded details holder.
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No, I thought the published retail was inflated relative to the market. For a sale to occur both sides must agree on the deal.
Coins are a hobby. Homes are more of a necessity. One can see the market price of homes trending higher too but buyers don’t always have the opportunity to wait to “buy low.”
I think coins are, in general, overpriced but that’s likely a more nostalgic view.
Ah, truly rare coins are not the pool in which I swim 🏊♂️.
Neither are earthly mansions. As a young man, I was working poor and had to be thrifty to stay out of debt. Now that I can afford rare coins and houses, I still prefer value and not getting into deep water.
That's the opposite of what i asked.
I'm talking about the 30% discount from 70% to 50% being too "generous" for a problem coin not the 70% being too cheap. (50% is 70% of 70%.). While some coins with moderate problems might sell for 70% of their problem free counterparts, that is the high end and too generous for a "general rule".
Sorry, I misunderstood your point WRT the discount , but now understand you mean the discount from 70% of retail guide to 50% of retail guide for problem coins which is an additional 29% markdown from my target of 70% guide for problem free graded PCGS or similar.
My reasoning is that this is a general rule for problem coins, which will be a problem to resell whenever that eventuality occurs.
As others have eloquently written, the market is limited for problem coins. If someone wants it, or would rather hang on to it because they don’t want to accept less for it than they paid, I understand that. The market is unlikely to change though, problem coins will always be harder to sell than to buy.
I will not buy a "detailed" coin unless it is something very, very special. I've learned a hard lesson that some coins I passed on long ago have not been seen again or ever come into my possession due to their rarity or price increase over the decades.
What I've seen happening with graded coins, is that common coins with problems much worse than this coin are often straight graded. That is a nice coin and the TPGS did the right thing giving it a details grade. I WISH THEY WERE CONSISTANT! Yeah, and I'm going to win the Million dollar lottery.
I would ask between whatever a F to VF problem free bids at. Usually it’s not a % but you go a few grades down for details