2025 Baseball Hall of Fame - Classic Era Committee
SDSportsFan
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The eight nominees for the Classic Era (Pre-1980) Committee have just been announced:
https://baseballhall.org/news/classic-baseball-era-committee-candidates-announced-2025
Dick Allen
Ken Boyer
John Donaldson (Negro Leagues)
Steve Garvey
Vic Harris (Negro Leagues)
Tommy John
Dave Parker
Luis Tiant
The Classic Baseball Era Committee will meet on Dec. 8 at baseball’s Winter Meetings in Dallas.
Steve
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Since Mussina got in Tommy John should as well.
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
Mussina has a pretty solid claim to the hall of fame in my opinion.
270 some wins - pitching during the steroid era. 10+ 200+ inning seasons. His career ERA is probably top 10.
I’m not saying Tommy John shouldn’t be in, but I’ve heard the case many times against Mussina and it just doesn’t make sense unless you can only see 300,3000
If someone wants to use wins for Mussina he had 88 of his wins with an era over 4 and the majority of those were an era of 4.4 or higher including a winning record with an era over 5 because he benefited greatly from being on very good teams
Since Mussina is in what is now the hall of very good, Tommy John should also be in the hall of very good
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
ERA on average was well above average in baseball during much of his career. I’m not only looking at his wins. I made other supportive points. I think that I could probably make arguments for 20 worse pitchers in the HoF.
Obviously Tommy John was much better than his record. Had he spent his entire career on the Dodgers for instance.
Dick Allen and Dave Parker.
Luis Tiant too.
Don't all pitchers with winning records benefit from "very good teams"?
Mike Mussina had a career ERA of 3.68, which was 23% better than league average. There are precisely ZERO pitchers with an ERA that much better than league average who pitched as many innings as Mussina who are not also in the HOF.
Tommy John had a career ERA of 3.34, which was only 11% better than league average. He has his own HOF case, but it's different, and not as strong as Mussina's, who was a slam dunk.
And yes, all pitchers won/lost records are determined in large part by the quality of their teams. Which is why "wins" is not an element of any sensible HOF argument.
Dick Allen is long overdue.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Allen stands head and shoulders over everyone else on the ballot, for sure. Of the rest, i don't think any of them deserve it (ignoring the Baines standard), but Boyer, John, and Tiant would bother me the least (all for different reasons).
For sure, some more than others which is why wins shouldnt be used as an argument
Theres a direct comparison with the same season for Mussina and Clemens
2005 Mussina was 13-8 with a 4.41 era. Clemens was 13-8 with a 1.87
Every aspect you did into whether ERA+, innings pitched WHIP etc Clemens was way better but had the same record.
Mussina had some great years and a lot of trash years. He was very good at best and TJ should be in if Mussina is in. The flood gates should be opened for players at this point with the players that have been let in recently
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
There are certainly a few players who are debatable, but if you think the most recent additions are what has moved the needle on quality of qualifications I suggest taking another look.
Leave out the bag of ridiculous dead ball pitchers and known backroom deals too.
Further, if the argument is that Mussina solely benefitted from being on a great team you shouldn’t use the 2005 Astros in a top-heavy NL Central, comparing him to one of the best pitchers in history, on a stellar rotation to make that point. There are too many other big factors that you’re ignoring.
Just forget the whole if this guy is in that guy should be in relative sizing argument and consider a players merits. It’s really not that difficult.
Interesting candidates/choices.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
No one on this list merits Hall induction, but the Hall is absolutely meaningless with Bonds, McGwire, Clemens, and Rose absent.
I do not have time for ignorant trolls.
ignore list: 1948_Swell_Robinson, Darin, bgr, bronco2078, dallasactuary
Parker,Allen no argument from me if voted in.
Personally, I believe Allen, Boyer, Garvey, John, Parker and Tiant ALL deserve to be inducted.
I don't know enough about Donaldson and Harris to opine about them.
Steve
Dick Allen - career WAR 58.7, 205th
Ken Boyer - career WAR 62.8, 160th
John Donaldson (Negro Leagues)
Steve Garvey - career WAR 38, 611th
Vic Harris (Negro Leagues)
Tommy John - career WAR 61.6, 174th
Dave Parker - career WAR 40.1, 543rd
Luis Tiant - career WAR 66.1, 136th
Here are just some of the players with higher lifetime WAR than this lot:
Buddy Bell - dropped after one ballot receiving just 1.7% of the vote
Dwight Evans - dropped after three years on the ballot and received just 50% Veterans Committee vote
Graig Nettles - dropped after 4 years on the ballot with 8.3% the high-water mark
the list goes on and on.
If any of these players make it in (particularly using the argument that they're better than so-and-so who is in), it is further proof MLB's Hall of Fame is an absolute joke.
I do not have time for ignorant trolls.
ignore list: 1948_Swell_Robinson, Darin, bgr, bronco2078, dallasactuary
Garvey lost his election bid in California. Maybe this election process may be kinder to him.
Dave Parker is long overdue. MVP, two-time batting champion, One of the strongest arms in history. Not very important, but he was also the 1st player to win the Home run derby.
Garvey should also be in. He was the Iron man before Cal Ripken jr.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
Thie list is very accurate as to what players most deserve entry. Dick Allen and Ken Boyer would be at the top of my list.
However, I do think there is one player not on the list who probably deserves the HoF entry the most. Cecil Travis. The case for Cecil Travis seems to be one lost to history. By age 27, he had 1370 hits, 581 rbi's, and a .327 batting average. He was considered one of the best fielding shortstops and coming off his best season (.359 BA, 39 2b, 19 3b, 101 rbi's)
In 1942, just weeks after Pearl Harbor Travis joins the military and spend the next 4 years in WW2. He fought in the Battle of the Bulge nearly losing his foot to a serious case of frostbite. Earning a Bronze Star, he returned to baseball a shell of his former self and was out of baseball a few years later.
In my opinion, we have what would have been an easy first-ballot Hall of Famer if not for his wartime sacrifice and I belive this merits entry into the Hall of Fame nearly a century later.
How did they bypass Thurman Munson?
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
I agree that Cecil Travis would be an outstanding edition to the HOF. One of my favorite MLB Collectibles I have is a Washington Senators autographed ball. Travis, “Dutch” Leonard and Mickey Vernon are among those that signed likely making it 1939 at the earliest with some of the war years excluded. Washington was in the pennant race with Detroit in 1945 so it is my hope that was the year the ball was signed.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I'm not a fan of opening the "would have been" door, when all we can really say is that be "might have been". And it's a big "might". Travis' batting numbers are good, but for the 1930's they're nothing special. And I have no idea if he was then considered "one of" the best fielding shortstops, but I can tell you that he no longer is. He wasn't terrible, but he also wasn't great.
Travis, by the way, denied the frostbite story.
I'm guessing the reason why Jim Kaat is a HOFer and Tommy John is not, is because of Kaat's 16 gold gloves?
Allen probably gets in this time. He has missed it by one vote the last two times he was up for election.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
Travis had a record breaking season in 1941 that was overshadowed by Williams and Joltin Joe. He hit 359 with 218 hits which was a record for a SS that stood for decades.
Suggesting that wasn’t terrible, but also wasn’t great is just misplaced. We can just agree to disagree on this one.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Travis did have a great season at the plate in 1941, although, as you note, it wasn't nearly the best that year. My reference to Travis as "not terrible, but also not great" was to his fielding. Overall, Travis was a very good hitter and a good shortstop. No shame in that, but nothing about his career says "Hall of Famer" to me. He might have had several great seasons during the war years, but that's true of lots of other players and I just can't see any reason to single out Travis by assuming he would have and putting him in the HOF.
He lead the AL in hits and finished the season with a higher BA than Joe… It is hard to compete with a 56 game hitting streak and the last player to hit 400, but the numbers Travis put up that year have just been forgotten and overshadowed. Let’s face it- besides 1933 and 1945-Washington was simply not an AL power or a pennant contender which does not help the cause for Travis. The numbers put up by Travis… not just in 1941… but from 1934 through 1941are worthy of HOF consideration. I am not seeing this as opening the “would be door” as much as acknowledging what Travis did in roughly 8 seasons by the age of 27. Yes it is a short period to consider. But maybe as a Yankee with those career stats we would not be having this discussion because he would have already been inducted.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Look, I have no desire to badmouth Cecil Travis, but mentioning him in the same breath as the Hall of Fame is just too far. He was a good enough shortstop who, at his very peak for one season, was the 5th best hitter in the AL. I could list, and have listed, at least 100 players with HOF cases stronger than Cecil Travis, and what team they played for doesn't enter into it.
No, the HOF case for Travis rests ENTIRELY on what might have happened had he not gone to war. It's a free country and anyone who wants to make that case is free to do so, but it won't convince me. But if you really want to make this case for an AL shortstop, you'll have a better chance with Johnny Pesky.
I like Pesky too… just not as much as Travis. I will end with agreeing to disagree but you have Travis as #5 in the AL for ‘41- Williams and DiMaggio are 1 and 2. Who are 3 and 4? I am not intending to argue the point, but I might add an ending simple observation.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Jeff Heath and Charlie Keller.
Thanks - those were the two I suspected
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Dave Parker is a member of both the Pittsburgh Pirates and Cincinnati Reds Hall of Fame.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
They have made the electors public! Here are the 16 who will decide the next Hall of Famer...
Hall of Fame players Paul Molitor, Eddie Murray, Tony Pérez, Lee Smith, Ozzie Smith, and Hall of Fame Manager Joe Torre.
Executives Sandy Alderson, Terry McGuirk, Dayton Moore, Arte Moreno and Brian Sabean.
Media Members/Historians Bob Elliott, Leslie Heaphy, Steve Hirdt, Dick Kaegel and Larry Lester
Molitor and Perez played with Dave Parker.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
When I saw the panel my first thought was Dave Parker had the best chance based on who is voting.
Unfortunately too few years for Munson.
Also interesting that Eddie Murray played against Parker in the 79 WS.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
A lot of mutual respect between the two. Parker also was a first base coach in 1997 with the Angels when Murray did a short stint there at the end of his career.
Cool. I did not know that.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21