Having trouble understanding this grade

Morgan13

I am a fan of PCGS so don't get me wrong.
Sorting through ebay I came across this Morgan.
I just cannot believe this coin actually straight graded!
Maybe there is a reason why it did.

MFeld

If all of what we’re seeing is in fact heavy hairlines/scratches (edited to add: not just haze), hopefully they’re a lot less conspicuous in hand.

What would you have expected the grade to be - 63? Obverse wiped/scratched? Other?

fathom

Possibly that appeared after holdering.

anablep

Very unfortunate. Maybe the coin “turned” after being certified.

Are they surface scratches or haze or a combination of both?

There are many better examples of that date to be had for sure.

OAKSTAR

I guess you're talking about this?

jmlanzaf

It's likely just haze. That wouldn't make it a details grade.

Morgan13

@MFeld said:
If all of what we’re seeing is in fact heavy hairlines/scratches (edited to add: not just haze), hopefully they’re a lot less conspicuous in hand.

What would you have expected the grade to be - 63? Obverse wiped/scratched? Other?

I don't honestly know what to expect as far as grade goes.
I suppose if I were one of the graders it would have been details-cleaned.
It also crossed my mind that with images being the only source of information on the coin would I buy it?
If it is haze is sure looks like hairlines caused by wiping.
I did not post this to prove my point.
The thread is based on an observation. If others think it's something else then I am willing to go along with it.

david3142

Often DMPL coins have hairlines on the die that transfer to the coin. They still look like scratches but they will be raised. I would guess that’s what that patch is. It doesn’t look like haze to me. From that image I do find it quite distracting but other than on eye appeal it shouldn’t affect the grade much. I haven’t seen many patches quite that bad on the obverse though.

Barberian

@david3142 said:
Often DMPL coins have hairlines on the die that transfer to the coin. They still look like scratches but they will be raised. I would guess that’s what that patch is. It doesn’t look like haze to me. From that image I do find it quite distracting but other than on eye appeal it shouldn’t affect the grade much. I haven’t seen many patches quite that bad on the obverse though.

To me, they look more like toning breaks or hairlines from a light wiping than die lines. They don't resemble die lines in that they stop well short of the devices. Die lines typically go directly into the very edge of the devices and then 'disappear' or are not present on the devices.

This 1855/54 looks like it's heavily hairlined. It does have quite a few fine hairlines, but most of the lines around the eagle and in the lettering are die lines, not hairlines.

Morgan13

This is the sellers description.
I appreciate the fact they are being honest. They are being upfront that the hairlines are their and do exist.

david3142

@Barberian said:

@david3142 said:
Often DMPL coins have hairlines on the die that transfer to the coin. They still look like scratches but they will be raised. I would guess that’s what that patch is. It doesn’t look like haze to me. From that image I do find it quite distracting but other than on eye appeal it shouldn’t affect the grade much. I haven’t seen many patches quite that bad on the obverse though.

To me, they look more like toning breaks or hairlines from a light wiping than die lines. They don't resemble die lines in that they stop well short of the devices. Die lines typically go directly into the very edge of the devices and then 'disappear' or are not present on the devices.

This 1855/54 looks like it's heavily hairlined. It does have quite a few fine hairlines, but most of the lines around the eagle and in the lettering are die lines, not hairlines.

You’re right, these do look more like hairlines than die scratches. The latter are usually straight while hairlines are often curved like these. Such lines are more visible on DMPLs and I have seen hairlined coins straight-graded although these are particularly egregious (at least from the photo).

golden

Not a coin that I would want.