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The US gold reserves may one day pay off our national debt

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  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 19,188 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmski52 said:
    Since none of this is happening.;...it's irrelevant.

    Is it irrelevant that they are talking about selling gold to buy bitcoin as a "strategic reserve"?

    Only ones talking about that are the ones who helped finance the orange man's re-election. "They" feel they now have an "in" and wish to push this on the weak. The motive here is to enrich themselves, not solve the debt problem.

    Why wouldn't they just print up more dollars and buy as much bitcoin as they want with imaginary fiat dollars?

    Because, hopefully, there is still an ounce of sanity out there.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,902 ✭✭✭✭✭

    hopefully, there is still an ounce of sanity out there.

    It seems to me that dollars created out of thin air are really no different than cryptos created out of thin air.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 19,188 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmski52 said:
    hopefully, there is still an ounce of sanity out there.

    It seems to me that dollars created out of thin air are really no different than cryptos created out of thin air.

    There is a big difference. Bigly, some might say.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • GoldFinger1969GoldFinger1969 Posts: 1,897 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 25, 2024 7:43AM

    @Goldminers said: Bitcoin killer whales can manipulate the price already and some are highly involved with government influencers. If they decide to take some profits at $100k, after keeping the available for sale supply down to keep current buying momentum high, they can drop the price down incredibly fast when they sell. Then rinse and repeat. Gold is not quite as volatile as crypto, and individuals have less influence on its price. As long as central banks are buying, I still prefer buying gold with them, and maybe some silver at this stage of the cycles.

    Bitcoin was held down months ago by weakness in the NASDAQ and also forced selling of confiscated BTC. Once that ended -- and this "halving" of supply hit -- the price rose in reaction to Trump coming in pumping the asset class and promising Gensler was out.

    I agree with your gold sentiments. Again....retail demand in formerly 3rd World countries goes from meager to market-moving. Indian retail demand has doubled every 15-20 years since 1947. It used to be 2-3% of global supply. Today, it's almost 25%. :o:o:o

    By 2035, it could be approaching 50% of global annual supply ! Probably less, but you can see the trend.

  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 4,097 ✭✭✭✭✭

    And of course, this morning it basically drops $100 an ounce. How can there be enough actual sellers to make this happen? Seems very suspicious to me.

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 19,188 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Goldminers said:
    And of course, this morning it basically drops $100 an ounce. How can there be enough actual sellers to make this happen? Seems very suspicious to me.

    Prospect of cease fire in Israeli. Oil is down same percentage wise.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 4,097 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:

    @Goldminers said:
    And of course, this morning it basically drops $100 an ounce. How can there be enough actual sellers to make this happen? Seems very suspicious to me.

    Prospect of cease fire in Israeli. Oil is down same percentage wise.

    Has any cease fire ever really stopped the madness between various factions there? Why sell gold based on a bogus scenario. Maybe Hezbullah and Israel want to stop for a while, to buy and gather more weapons, or are sick of the damage temporarily, but until hostages, the ones that are left in Gaza, are released, no peace prospects make any sense to sell gold.

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 19,188 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Goldminers said:

    @cohodk said:

    @Goldminers said:
    And of course, this morning it basically drops $100 an ounce. How can there be enough actual sellers to make this happen? Seems very suspicious to me.

    Prospect of cease fire in Israeli. Oil is down same percentage wise.

    Has any cease fire ever really stopped the madness between various factions there? Why sell gold based on a bogus scenario. Maybe Hezbullah and Israel want to stop for a while, to buy and gather more weapons, or are sick of the damage temporarily, but until hostages, the ones that are left in Gaza, are released, no peace prospects make any sense to sell gold.

    Just because the price falls, doesn't mean there is selling. Premium is built into price based on perceived risks. Taking the risk off, even if just for a day, will reduce premium.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,946 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmski52 said:
    hopefully, there is still an ounce of sanity out there.

    It seems to me that dollars created out of thin air are really no different than cryptos created out of thin air.

    While both may be created out of thin air, dollars are used in commerce transactions both physically and digitally while a very limited number of cryptos can be used, with a lot of hassle, only in transactions and only digitally. Demand for cryptos is not normally based on their need for conducting transactions, it is based on speculation of their future value. Dollars have limited investment value due to the fact that they lose value over time.

    The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,946 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 26, 2024 11:04AM

    @cohodk said:

    Just because the price falls, doesn't mean there is selling. Premium is built into price based on perceived risks. Taking the risk off, even if just for a day, will reduce premium.

    as with any other asset, supply and demand, both current and projected determine the price of oil. All other stimuli affect that supply and demand.

    The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,902 ✭✭✭✭✭

    With talk of using Bitcoin in some sort of strategic reserve, is it in The Plan to eventually use Bitcoin (or gold) to pay off or pay down the government debt?

    Wouldn't it be easy enough for gov.com to control Bitcoin simply by buying Bitcoin with newly-created dollars? They may be nuts enough to be planning this.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It would be easier for Gov.com to click the mouse/keyboard a time or two and say "Look no more debt". Easy as Pecan Pie. RGDS!

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
    BOOMIN!™

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,902 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It would be easier for Gov.com to click the mouse/keyboard a time or two and say "Look no more debt". Easy as Pecan Pie.

    Wow, are you in the running for Secretary of the Treasury?

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmski52 said:
    It would be easier for Gov.com to click the mouse/keyboard a time or two and say "Look no more debt". Easy as Pecan Pie.

    Wow, are you in the running for Secretary of the Treasury?

    No, I think that's the doge coin guy. RGDS!

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
    BOOMIN!™

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 19,188 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmski52 said:
    With talk of using Bitcoin in some sort of strategic reserve, is it in The Plan to eventually use Bitcoin (or gold) to pay off or pay down the government debt?

    Wouldn't it be easy enough for gov.com to control Bitcoin simply by buying Bitcoin with newly-created dollars? They may be nuts enough to be planning this.

    Maybe the plan is to pay off the debt with bitcoin, then declare bitcoin worthless. Two birds,
    One shot. Brilliant!!

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,902 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The price of bitcoin would keep increasing with more and more purchases by gov.com and by more and more speculators. Once the market cap of gov.com's holdings is greater than or equal to gov.com's debt, they would pay off the debt with the bitcoin proceeds.

    How then could they subsequently justify declaring it worthless?

    As an aside, how is this different than what goes on with US Treasuries already?

    More and more sleight-of-hand by the money pimps. It just doesn't stop.

    Got gold? Got silver?

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 19,188 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 27, 2024 11:08AM

    @jmski52 said:
    The price of bitcoin would keep increasing with more and more purchases by gov.com and by more and more speculators. Once the market cap of gov.com's holdings is greater than or equal to gov.com's debt, they would pay off the debt with the bitcoin proceeds.

    How then could they subsequently justify declaring it worthless?

    I guess they wouldnt really need to declare it worthless, just make it so no one would want to hold or transact it.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 8,525 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You have to be extremely skeptical whenever an entity makes a public statement that they are considering or planning to buy or sell ZZZ quantity of XXX. Why would you make such an announcement to drive the market to less favorable pricing BEFORE you have even established your market position ?

    Who does that ?
    Someone who has ALREADY bought or sold it.

    For example,
    Suppose you are a central bank that has Bitcoin and you want to trade it for gold. You don't come out and tell everyone that you intend to do that. Instead, you make the statement that you are considering the sale of gold and the purchase of Bitcoin. That has the effect of moving the market prices in a direction that is initially more favorable for your transactions.

    Or take the Bank of England and Gordon Brown. They stated that they were going to sell off a portion of their gold reserves over a certain time span. That announcement drove the price down, supposedly before they even started selling. But I suspect that they had ALREADY sold title to it prior to the announcement. During the time frame in which they were supposedly selling it off, the "spot" price of gold actually went UP. I think that is because it had already been sold prior to that.

  • GoldFinger1969GoldFinger1969 Posts: 1,897 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Goldminers said:
    And of course, this morning it basically drops $100 an ounce. How can there be enough actual sellers to make this happen? Seems very suspicious to me.

    Lot of volatility the last few weeks. Still NOTHING compared to 45 years ago. Gold market moved 5-10% on a few days.

  • GoldFinger1969GoldFinger1969 Posts: 1,897 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 27, 2024 9:55PM

    @jmski52 said:
    As an aside, how is this different than what goes on with US Treasuries already?

    U.S. Treasuries are the largest, most liquid, most transparent market on Earth. You have the price set by DOZENS of institutional buyers....hundreds of investment firms....and thousands of retail buyers every hour. The liquidity is 10x the next largest fixed income market aside from U.S. MBS (2nd to Treasuries).

    Can't get more legitimate than that. :)

  • GoldFinger1969GoldFinger1969 Posts: 1,897 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @dcarr said:
    Who does that ?
    Someone who has ALREADY bought or sold it.\

    No, or someone who is going to be dribbling out of the position over a long period of time and wants to make a 1-time statement and be done with it. Your way of not announcing went out in the 1950's. :)

    Suppose you are a central bank that has Bitcoin and you want to trade it for gold. You don't come out and tell everyone that you intend to do that. Instead, you make the statement that you are considering the sale of gold and the purchase of Bitcoin. That has the effect of moving the market prices in a direction that is initially more favorable for your transactions.

    Not necessarily. It depends on the size of the move and the time frame. You don't know either.

    Or take the Bank of England and Gordon Brown. They stated that they were going to sell off a portion of their gold reserves over a certain time span. That announcement drove the price down, supposedly before they even started selling. But I suspect that they had ALREADY sold title to it prior to the announcement. During the time frame in which they were supposedly selling it off, the "spot" price of gold actually went UP. I think that is because it had already been sold prior to that.

    No, they sold it off right into the bottom of the 1999-2001 bear market. Nobody cared -- everybody wanted Internet and Tech stocks. They hadn't sold the gold and they would keep selling for months and years.

  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 8,525 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @GoldFinger1969 said:

    @dcarr said:
    Who does that ?
    Someone who has ALREADY bought or sold it.\

    No, or someone who is going to be dribbling out of the position over a long period of time and wants to make a 1-time statement and be done with it. Your way of not announcing went out in the 1950's. :)

    Suppose you are a central bank that has Bitcoin and you want to trade it for gold. You don't come out and tell everyone that you intend to do that. Instead, you make the statement that you are considering the sale of gold and the purchase of Bitcoin. That has the effect of moving the market prices in a direction that is initially more favorable for your transactions.

    Not necessarily. It depends on the size of the move and the time frame. You don't know either.

    Or take the Bank of England and Gordon Brown. They stated that they were going to sell off a portion of their gold reserves over a certain time span. That announcement drove the price down, supposedly before they even started selling. But I suspect that they had ALREADY sold title to it prior to the announcement. During the time frame in which they were supposedly selling it off, the "spot" price of gold actually went UP. I think that is because it had already been sold prior to that.

    No, they sold it off right into the bottom of the 1999-2001 bear market. Nobody cared -- everybody wanted Internet and Tech stocks. They hadn't sold the gold and they would keep selling for months and years.

    .

    I stand by what I wrote.

    Why make such a statement at all if "dribbling" ?

    Gold was going down before the Bank of England announced their sales. This is because that is when they were actually selling. They didn't announce the sales until after they were done selling. And then mysteriously the price of gold went up while they were supposedly dumping their gold on the market ?

    Come on, connect the dots.
    Discount the bank-speak.

    .

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,946 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 12, 2024 3:31PM

    Is the central bank of the US (FED) even buying gold? Don't hear much about it so I doubt it. However they should be buying ant this is a major reason why:

    I'm Sorry. Yes you are.

    The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong

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