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1909-S-VDB Lincoln Cent.......

OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 8,770 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

...........thoughts.

Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

Comments

  • M4MadnessM4Madness Posts: 456 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 17, 2024 4:17PM

    Looks like it was in a pair of sidecuts.

    On second thought, both sides aren't incused.

    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-dollars/everyman-carson-city-morgan-dollars-circulation-strikes-1878-1893/alltimeset/342506

    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/type-sets-by-mint/carson-city-basic-type-set-circulation-strikes-1870-1893/alltimeset/378275

  • BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,699 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's genuine. What a rotten thing to do to a Key Coin.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • IkesTIkesT Posts: 4,163 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BuffaloIronTail said:
    It's genuine. What a rotten thing to do to a Key Coin.

    Pete

    Nope.

  • ifthevamzarockinifthevamzarockin Posts: 8,912 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not genuine. ;)

  • ldhairldhair Posts: 7,422 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The shape of the mint mark looks odd. Maybe just the images but the wear pattern also looks odd.

    Larry

  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 25,010 ✭✭✭✭✭

    MM added?
    that's my guess.
    bob :)

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 16,274 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @AUandAG said:
    MM added?
    that's my guess.
    bob :)

    The whole coin looks bad to me.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 47,413 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The Chinese are mass producing struck key-date coins. This is one of them. Whoever bought it probably discovered it was fake and then mutilated it to keep someone else from being fooled.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 25,079 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It is not a match for any of the genuine mint mark positions.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 38,601 ✭✭✭✭✭

    the vdb is wrong for an added mm

  • jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 9,935 ✭✭✭✭✭

    added mintmark so it dosnt matter

  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 31,377 ✭✭✭✭✭

    bogus

  • OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 8,770 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 18, 2024 8:04PM

    So now the question is, well ICG slab it as a counterfeit?

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • JWPJWP Posts: 32,584 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A Walmart price roll back special

    USN & USAF retired 1971-1993
    Successful Transactions with more than 100 Members

  • EarlyUSEarlyUS Posts: 306 ✭✭✭

    I vote "fake".

    James at EarlyUS.com

    On the web: http://www.earlyus.com
  • robecrobec Posts: 7,006 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The S mint mark is missing the little dot at the base of the upper loop.

    - Bob -

    MPL's - Lincolns of Colorimage
    Central Valley Roosevelts

  • jfriedm56jfriedm56 Posts: 2,842 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @robec said:
    The S mint mark is missing the little dot at the base of the upper loop.

    Great diagnostic tool. Looks like the dot is present on all of the genuine known S mint mark positions. Never knew that dot existed and thank you for sharing this information. Until the counterfeiters learn to incorporate a dot there, I’ll use this as a tool to identify a genuine mint marked 1909-S VDB. And by the way, make you life easier by purchasing only reputable third party graded ‘09s vdb’s!

  • OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 8,770 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would like to have it in a counterfeit slab.

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 38,601 ✭✭✭✭✭

    i wouldn't use the dot alone, some mm can be pretty blasted

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 38,601 ✭✭✭✭✭

    here's a genuine one from coinfacts

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 38,601 ✭✭✭✭✭

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 38,601 ✭✭✭✭✭

    also from coinfacts

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 38,601 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 21, 2024 2:51PM

    note the centered period between the D and B and the diagonal crossbar(?) in the B

    there was only 1 reverse die used

    https://www.pcgs.com/news/counterfeit-vs-authentic-1909-s-vdb-lincoln-cents

  • OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 8,770 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @OAKSTAR said:
    I would like to have it in a counterfeit slab.

    Not a counterfeit slab. A counterfeit coin in a legitimate slab.

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 38,601 ✭✭✭✭✭

    real reverse 09s vdb

    real reverse 09 vdb

    note the "N"... the right notch on the 09s vdb is shallow as compared to the 09 vdb

    there are many fakes. you can find good fakes that get past the glance. learn what a genuine cent looks like overall.

  • KSorboKSorbo Posts: 170 ✭✭✭

    I’m glad it’s fake. It would be too painful to see a genuine S-VDB mutilated in that manner.

  • OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 8,770 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 21, 2024 3:14PM

    So here's a closeup of the N. You tell me @MsMorrisine.

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 38,601 ✭✭✭✭✭

    looks like a shallow N but that's not the only pick up point

  • Namvet69Namvet69 Posts: 9,398 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think the size of the damage reflects the ire of the collector who got got. IMHO

    BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall, coinsarefun, MichaelDixon, NickPatton, ProfLiz, Twobitcollector,Jesbroken oih82w8, DCW

  • OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 8,770 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 21, 2024 4:12PM

    @Namvet69 said:
    I think the size of the damage reflects the ire of the collector who got got. IMHO

    Nobody likes a smart ass @Namvet69. IMHO

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • robecrobec Posts: 7,006 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MsMorrisine said:
    real reverse 09s vdb

    real reverse 09 vdb

    note the "N"... the right notch on the 09s vdb is shallow as compared to the 09 vdb

    there are many fakes. you can find good fakes that get past the glance. learn what a genuine cent looks like overall.

    The 1909-VDB uses both reverses. But the SVDB only uses the shallow, which is always paired with the centered dot.

    - Bob -

    MPL's - Lincolns of Colorimage
    Central Valley Roosevelts

  • ifthevamzarockinifthevamzarockin Posts: 8,912 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 21, 2024 4:54PM

    @OAKSTAR said:

    @OAKSTAR said:
    I would like to have it in a counterfeit slab.

    Not a counterfeit slab. A counterfeit coin in a legitimate slab.

    I think ICG is your only shot at that and I'm not sure if they do modern counterfeits with all the stuff coming from overseas. ;)

    Edited to add: You could contact Insider/Skip over on CT and ask him directly.

  • OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 8,770 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ifthevamzarockin said:

    @OAKSTAR said:

    @OAKSTAR said:
    I would like to have it in a counterfeit slab.

    Not a counterfeit slab. A counterfeit coin in a legitimate slab.

    I think ICG is your only shot at that and I'm not sure if they do modern counterfeits with all the stuff coming from overseas. ;)

    Edited to add: You could contact Insider/Skip over on CT and ask him directly.

    I think you're right. I contacted ICG and I'm waiting for a reply now on how they would label it.

    Thanks, I'll try and contact him. 👍

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 38,601 ✭✭✭✭✭

    it looks too good for the typical slop from the website to be unsaid

  • Steven59Steven59 Posts: 10,883 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 21, 2024 6:35PM

    I know the mintmark is off but surprisingly the VDB is pretty good - the dots might be slightly off????.

    "When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"

  • OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 8,770 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Steven59 - How about the N in UNITED?

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 38,601 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Steven59 said:
    I know the mintmark is off but surprisingly the VDB is pretty good - the dots might be slightly off????.

    that's why i don't think it's an added mm

    could be a created vdb?

  • Steven59Steven59 Posts: 10,883 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @OAKSTAR said:
    @Steven59 - How about the N in UNITED?

    Yours is the "shallow" N so that's good!

    "When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"

  • Steven59Steven59 Posts: 10,883 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MsMorrisine said:
    that's why i don't think it's an added mm
    could be a created vdb?

    I don't know - the S almost looks more like the 003# that the block style 001# which 1909 cents used.
    Mintmark 003.........

    "When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"

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