Should the US Mint Commemorative program be ended?
HalfDime
Posts: 57 ✭✭✭
This year we have two commemorative coins being sold by the US Mint, and both have sold very poorly. There are some who could say the Harriet Tubman coin is selling poorly because it is not a good design for a popular coin, however the other commemorative is a military coin that is about the Greatest Generation, and it has barely sold more at this point. (Sales for both are at record lows, even below spouse coins as an example for gold). The US Mint has to be losing money on these at these drastically low sales numbers, and from inventory levels it appears they will have many hundreds to thousands of unsold coins when sales end in two months for both coins.
Classic commemorates ended in 1954 after a 64 year run (1893-1954).
The current modern commemorative have been happening since 1982, or for 53 years.
How low do sales need to drop before it is ended for moderns?
Should it be ended next year?
Why has interest vanished in these?
What made the classic commemorate program end in 1954?
Do sales not matter at all, and the US Mint will keep the program regardless?
Comments
More coin to stuff into vaults as long as the paper is still being used. Your point i like better, jmo and fwiw
I started out in 1982 thinking I'd keep a complete set of modern commemoratives. I quickly abandoned that plan when they started issuing gold and multi-coin programs, and then two commem programs every year.
I've bought the occassional commem but I don't even consider most of them. As far as I'm concerned they went to the well too often with collectors like me.
Up to Congress.
Perhaps, along with the federal reserve.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
When the flippers found out they couldn't make money on them they stopped buying. The general public does not care about commemorative coins or even know that most exist.
This ^^^^. At the end of the day, it's politics, and the Mint will do what it is told to do, even if it loses money. Like making cents and nickels. Because life as we know it would end if people paying for things in cash were forced to round to the nearest dime.
This is about surcharges going to politically connected organizations. Not collector demand. And certainly not the Mint;s P&L.
It will end when Congress decides to end it. Which might very well be never, since there will always be constituents wanting those surcharges, regardless of the cost to the taxpayers. And Congress people willing to oblige, regardless of the cost to taxpayers.
Get rid of the cent, nickel and dime first.
And bring back the Capped Bust half dollar as the main circulating type.
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
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Is the mint profiting from it? It is up to Congress and Congress reports to me as a voter. My concern as a taxpayer would be that the program not lose money.
I quit buying these several years ago. Too many designs were being made. Wish they had stuck with only one design per year.
1936
If the mint is losing money on them, they can kill it as far as I’m concerned. There’s way more to it than that, I know, but since I’m not a consumer, it’s my only real concern about it.
Weren’t classic commems basically fundraisers for causes/places, originally? Maybe bring back that concept so at least a group of specific people might care and help market the offerings? (I could be off on that, not a consumer of classic commems, either)
Yeah. And, if you're not a lobbyist contributing to their campaigns, they really care about you as their boss. As evidenced by all the great things they already do with your money, as a taxpayer. 🤣
No, the Mint is not profiting from it. Losing millions. And it's not ending anytime soon. Because the people they actually report to (lobbyists and their clients) are profiting from it. Like everything else in government.
I dunno, the ones from the 80’s and 90’s make some nice entry level coins that Newbies can collect by theme, like all the military ones or all the Olympic related ones etc. Maybe there’s a way to keep them going like that for New Collectors with themes they find interesting but without going overboard and making too many or boring ones.
Mr_Spud
Sure stop it or make it a once in 5 year thing. Just ramp up the medal game with privies every two months, so the lotto guys can get a fix. The big dealers can hype up the small mintage on late nite TV. Everyone wins. Including the people that don’t buy them😉
Martin
On a serious thought if they did stop them it would likely have a positive influence on the them. It would be a closed set. The keys known with some of them being under a couple thousand minted.
Just a thought
Martin
I don't know. I have wondered about the NZ mint. They have coins with very small mintages and they keep pumping them out. Apparently they are profitable somehow, although I'm sure it's a more efficient operation unless it is also a money-losing operation.
Yeah, the foreign mints have very different cost structures. I'm pretty sure the US commemorative coin program is a money loser for the Mint, but the money generated through the surcharges creates political pressure to force the Mint to continue it.
Not concerned with these moderns. Do not collect them. I like the vintage examples of commemoratives.
Starting in the 1930s, the US Mint was criticized for issuing commemorative coins of dubious recognition and seemingly endless mint runs (the Oregon Trail Memorial 50-cent piece was minted 8 years during a 14-year span). Multiple unrelated commemoratives also were minted in many years, diminishing the significance of commemorative issues. In 1936 alone 19 commemorative half dollars were minted. Three more commemorative half dollars were proposed for issue in 1954, but all were vetoed by President Eisenhower due to the lack of interest expressed by collectors, and the period of early commemoratives ended that year with the 1954 Carver-Washington half dollar.
The US Mint then embarked on issuing National commemorative medals instead of coins, exactly as you mentioned for causes/fundraisers, and only sold them in the various locations around the country. These also had to be approved by Congress. One of the early ones is the 1954 Albany gold (only 50 were minted) you see as my avatar. Other issues often had very low mintages as well and are extremely hard to find. Many of these US Mint medals have PCGS pops of less than 2 or 3 graded.
During the commemorative gap between 1955 and 1982 when they started again, other private mints produced some rather nice so-called half dollar commemoratives like those by Robert McNamara from 1959-1978, usually called Heraldic Art Medals.
I have registry sets of nearly all of the National Commemorative medals (link to them in my signature line), all of the modern commemorative coins, and the so-called half dollars. Personally, I enjoy them all, but agree interest in these is fading.
The 2025-2026 semiquincentennial issues will be coming up for the 250th anniversary of the 1776 signing of the Declaration of Independence, which may have a bit more popularity than the last few.
From an economic and practical perspective, I think the Mint should stop minting the uncirculated gold, silver, and clad commemoratives, and only strike proofs.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
I would like to see Congress dial back the three coin sets. A commemorative dollar is usually sufficient to commemorate the people, places and events. Of course I love when they add a medal to increase sales on the proof dollars.
By law, the mint has to cover their costs before funds are released to the recipients. That's why the Girl Scouts didn't receive any money - sales were too low. I don't recall seeing any press releases about several of the recent coins.
It may take several years for the recipients to receive the money and generally, they need to fundraise to match.
The money should eventually show up on the charity's form 990, albeit not always obviously. For example, the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame lists $8m in "Government Grants" for 2021 (https://www.hoophall.com/files/6616/7344/7177/990_Naismith_Memorial_Basketball_Hall_of_Fame__Inc._FY21_Financials.pdf), nothing in 2020 or 2022. Based on reported sales (https://www.usmint.gov/about/production-sales-figures/historical-commemorative-coin-sales/2020-basketball-hall-of-fame), they should have received $2,032,250
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Thanks for the info. I did not know this. I thought they get the surcharges regardless.
That said, it's kind of BS for the Mint to impose a surcharge, ostensibly to go to a worthy non-profit, when it doesn't actually go there if the Mint, using whatever government accounting it uses, determines that its costs were not covered, and is therefore entitled to keep the surcharge, in addition to the issue price. Yet another reason to avoid these.
Still, it's all the government's risk, so the political pressure to authorize the coins remains, even if the designated organizations never receive anything. Heads they win, tails we as taxpayers lose.
Yes, to many designs in the program, jmo. Give me seated and bust stuff
I was hoping that the series would end in 2022 when no 2023 coins were issued. Unfortunately, the 2024s were released. Interest is almost nonexistent for these coins.
My Jefferson Registry:
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/alltimeset/191115
Commemorate numismatists!
What have you been smoking? Congress primarily listens to special interests in my opinion.
The commemorative coin programme effectively ended when people stopped buying the stuff they pump out. Collectors realise that but the US congress has not.
Careful. We can discuss coins, but not the people that are on them or authorize them.
I think George Washington was a good president and I don't care who knows it!
Chopmarked Trade Dollar Registry Set --- US & World Gold Showcase --- World Chopmark Showcase
I have felt one of the contributors to the decline in stamp collecting came from the mass proliferation of commemoratives by USPS.
Wrong again. The surcharges come from the LAW as passed by Congress and signed by the President. The requirement to cover costs - no cost to the taxpayer - is also in the LAW.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Never had an interest, own none..
They are flat, boring, and expensive. Some even make you go 🤔, and some are just politically motivated. They should quit the commems and make some more W coins for circulation. I would really like that.
God bless all who believe in him. Do unto others what you expect to be done to you. Dubbed a "Committee Secret Agent" by @mr1931S on 7/23/24. Founding member of CU Anti-Troll League since 9/24/24.
What's wrong? That the LAW says what it says, or that buyers are asked to pay a surcharge, ostensibly to benefit a worthy cause, but that surcharge may or may not just go to the federal government if the Mint does not cover inflated, convoluted costs that are not disclosed to the buyer at the time of purchase?
The latter sounds about right, based on what you're saying. And, if true, it's total BS.
The Mint loses lots of money on lots of different things. Like producing cents and nickels for circulation. In amounts that dwarf everything they have ever lost on every commemorative program since the beginning of time.
Absolutely no reason to collect a surcharge meant for a non-profit, and then divert it to a government agency that operates at a significant profit, due to the overall numismatic sales program as well as general seigniorage, based on the opaque way costs are allocated to individual coin programs. Total BS, if true.
We have a set of coins coming out in 2026 to celebrate the United States "Semiquincentennial" or "SemiQ".
Also a congressman is proposing coins in 2026 to commemorate a soccer championship.
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@NJCoin I've long argued that the mint seems to be putting an unreasonable part of the costs on the back of collectors. If the mint produced zero coins for collectors, their costs would not be measurably different - the costs arise from their statutory role as the producer of coins for the USA.
Variable costs sure - acquiring the silver planchets, preparing them for striking, striking the coins, packaging, etc. - sure those are part of the costs. Die manufacturing. Security for the precious metal, etc. too (since the only reason that's in the building is to manufacture collector coins). Even some of the wear and tear on the machines (but the 100,000 coins are dwarfed by the billions of minor coins minted).
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
No. However I wish Congress by some miracle would limit commemoratives to subjects that are most meaningful to Americans. Impossible to get universal agreement, yes. But try harder maybe.
They already restricted it to two per year in order to strike a balance between none and 21 in 1936.
You can definitely divide the modern commemorative era into the 1980s, the 1990s and 2000s and beyond.
The recent coinage acts are a mixed bag of circulating and commemorative coins. The lines are now somewhat blurred. The 2026 250 year anniversary coins will include Washington quarters with a new reverse and a commemorative dollar. After that we have a series of Washington quarters honoring “youth in sports” and a series of Kennedy half dollars honoring the Paralympics. It looks to me that Congress is abusing all the mint programs.