Oh, I get the point @JBK . My colorful metaphors were used to describe a poor customer service experience (which it certainly was, though @PCGS_Hy made everything work, to his credit). You'll note I did not describe PCGS itself with those terms. They were used to describe the frustrating customer service people and experience. Do I now regret not rereading the rules? Of course. Do I appreciate PCGS for allowing this thread to breathe? Absolutely. Please review the 2nd and 3rd sentences above. It was a poor experience, but I now have respect for PCGS customer service thanks to truly customer-centric people such as Hy.
"Brother, can you spare a dime?" (Especially a 1975 no S proof?)
@allnewsanchor said:
Oh, I get the point @JBK . My colorful metaphors were used to describe a poor customer service experience (which it certainly was, though @PCGS_Hy made everything work, to his credit). You'll note I did not describe PCGS itself with those terms. They were used to describe the frustrating customer service people and experience. Do I now regret not rereading the rules? Of course. Do I appreciate PCGS for allowing this thread to breathe? Absolutely. Please review the 2nd and 3rd sentences above. It was a poor experience, but I now have respect for PCGS customer service thanks to truly customer-centric people such as Hy.
Being a news guy, it might be a nice gesture to edit the thread title.
@Bikergeek said: @allnewsanchor I'm happy you're here. I think you've comported yourself well, and I'm happy that you politely raised an issue that I too have experienced (and probably complained about here). Sometimes I feel my voice isn't heard.
Your feedback was heard, and you got a PCGS rep to respond. You challenged them to provide customer service and they rose to the challenge and this is laudable.
I'm an old guy and I hear a lot of other old (guys mostly, a few gals) talk about how "coin collecting is a hobby in decline" and "we need to attract YNs (young numismatists)." Perhaps. But I think if we all treated folks like you, with lower message counts, with simple human decency there'd be less hand-wringing about who's going to buy our sets when we pass them on (or pass on!)
You're entitled to customer service because you're a PCGS customer. And you're entitled to use this forum as you will, as long as you follow the rules (as @PCGS_Hy reminded us all above!)
For people that pick on folks with low message counts: why don'tcha quit punching down and punch up instead - @PCGS_Hy only has 14 posts!
@ifthevamzarockin said: @allnewsanchor
I would be willing to bet you would have gotten the same help from the forum and from Hy with a little more respectful title.
Rather than "Our host's customer service leaves much to be desired"
"Please help with customer service issue" would have solved your problem without attacking our host.
@BStrauss3 said:
And perhaps you don't realize this is a private forum, provided by our hosts for their customers and potential customers to interact. Politely. With respect.
If I were in charge, I'd refund your money and permanently block you. In a few posts, you've proven to be precisely the kind of participant we don't need/want here.
That's funny! Probably true for me as well. Afterall, I've done critical identification work for a living for 3 decades on objects much smaller than coins and can quickly recognize competence levels in id-work, regardless of whether the object in question are coins, insects, or diatoms. From what I see, I'm becoming one of their "problem customers." Maybe they'll offer me a job, who knows?
I sent those photos of two overdates to their staff. I was told that they cannot tell for certain that they are 55/54 overdates (WB-2 and WB-1, respectively, which are the more prominent overdate DMs, but I'm not asking for DMs here). The coins need to be attributed again, and I've been told there is no guarantee that they will be determined to be overdates. A boilerplate remark, perhaps, but they are in fact clear overdates, and any confidence in the ability of PCGS staff to attribute coins will vanish if they don't validate the overdates.
Add in their failure to do a reed count on another order to distinguish an R6 coin from an R2 coin as instructed by the client, then I wonder how many submissions, resubmissions, charges, and frustration they will have to go through to get a coin attributed properly.
@PCGS_Hy
Thanks for your continuing to reach out and help here. I sent an email with close-up photos of the overdates (failure to verify them as 55/54 is really not an option here), plus new concerns over failure to follow my specific instructions on another misidentified coin (49666386) in this submission. They must do a reed count on this coin to verify that it has 146 reeds.
What are the PUPs on this?
God bless all who believe in him. Do unto others what you expect to be done to you. Dubbed a "Committee Secret Agent" by @mr1931S on 7/23/24. Founding member of CU Anti-Troll League since 9/24/24.
I'd draw those circles differently. What's shown in hummingbird's post is an early die state WB-1 with a very pronounced overdate. I see stuff on that coin that I haven't seen before. Most 55/54's are not nearly that obvious. So, it is important to focus on PUPs that are usually present on all die states and die marriages, and ones that are visible in the typical blurry photos on eBay or elsewhere. If you're fortunate enough to have a Great Photo like the one below, then one can see the underdate more clearly. This is WB-2 which has a less obvious overdate than the WB-1 above but is great to show the points I look at.
1) I look at the 8 for the underlying 8 - if it obviously loops over the overlying 8, it's a 55/54, Also, check for the remnants of the underdate 8 within the overdate 8. They look like little ramps on the the NW corner of each loop of the overdate 8.
2) Compare ball widths - ball on first 5 will be wider than that on second 5. Look for the ball of the underdate extending further to the right of the overdate ball making them combined to be wider than the ball on the second 5
These I check for supportive information
3) Check for horizontal bar of underlying 4 - note how the bar was almost erased on this coin. It is often hard to see. If it's clearly visible, then It's an overdate. I check other characters to be sure it isn't a scratch.
4) Check to see foot of underlying 4 - look for the bumps
5) Check for the doubled staff on the first 5
Now go on eBay and look at the 1855/54's that are labeled as such on Ebay. Familiarize yourself with these PUPs and how they look on different coins.
Here's a close-up of an identified 55/54 WB-2 on eBay to show what I relied on to identify it. the underdate 8 also extends faintly over the overdate 8 as well. The die line between the rocks indicates this is WB-2.
Here's the overdate that was submitted to PCGS (without the dog hair) that was returned an 1855 normal date. They changed the identifier and coin number that I gave them. What went into that decision?!! The photos could be clearer but this 1855/54 WB-1 overdate is as strong and conspicuous as it gets. Can you see it? They apparently cannot from this photo. Then I get the necessary disclaimer that if I do submit the coin again, it could still come back an 1855 normal date. That's why I say the coin isn't being evaluated here, PCGS is.
Comments
Oh, I get the point @JBK . My colorful metaphors were used to describe a poor customer service experience (which it certainly was, though @PCGS_Hy made everything work, to his credit). You'll note I did not describe PCGS itself with those terms. They were used to describe the frustrating customer service people and experience. Do I now regret not rereading the rules? Of course. Do I appreciate PCGS for allowing this thread to breathe? Absolutely. Please review the 2nd and 3rd sentences above. It was a poor experience, but I now have respect for PCGS customer service thanks to truly customer-centric people such as Hy.
"Brother, can you spare a dime?" (Especially a 1975 no S proof?)
Being a news guy, it might be a nice gesture to edit the thread title.
@allnewsanchor
I would be willing to bet you would have gotten the same help from the forum and from Hy with a little more respectful title.
Rather than "Our host's customer service leaves much to be desired"
"Please help with customer service issue" would have solved your problem without attacking our host.
Great post, Sean!
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
Yeah, I was jailed for poor tropes.
This.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Perhaps a few here- with no dog in the fight- are more offended than PCGS is/was?
Odd.
peacockcoins
What are the PUPs on this?
God bless all who believe in him. Do unto others what you expect to be done to you. Dubbed a "Committee Secret Agent" by @mr1931S on 7/23/24. Founding member of CU Anti-Troll League since 9/24/24.
Young Numismatist • My Toned Coins
Life is roadblocks. Don't let nothing stop you, 'cause we ain't stopping. - DJ Khaled
I'd draw those circles differently. What's shown in hummingbird's post is an early die state WB-1 with a very pronounced overdate. I see stuff on that coin that I haven't seen before. Most 55/54's are not nearly that obvious. So, it is important to focus on PUPs that are usually present on all die states and die marriages, and ones that are visible in the typical blurry photos on eBay or elsewhere. If you're fortunate enough to have a Great Photo like the one below, then one can see the underdate more clearly. This is WB-2 which has a less obvious overdate than the WB-1 above but is great to show the points I look at.
1) I look at the 8 for the underlying 8 - if it obviously loops over the overlying 8, it's a 55/54, Also, check for the remnants of the underdate 8 within the overdate 8. They look like little ramps on the the NW corner of each loop of the overdate 8.
2) Compare ball widths - ball on first 5 will be wider than that on second 5. Look for the ball of the underdate extending further to the right of the overdate ball making them combined to be wider than the ball on the second 5
These I check for supportive information
3) Check for horizontal bar of underlying 4 - note how the bar was almost erased on this coin. It is often hard to see. If it's clearly visible, then It's an overdate. I check other characters to be sure it isn't a scratch.
4) Check to see foot of underlying 4 - look for the bumps
5) Check for the doubled staff on the first 5
Now go on eBay and look at the 1855/54's that are labeled as such on Ebay. Familiarize yourself with these PUPs and how they look on different coins.
Here's a close-up of an identified 55/54 WB-2 on eBay to show what I relied on to identify it. the underdate 8 also extends faintly over the overdate 8 as well. The die line between the rocks indicates this is WB-2.
Here's the overdate that was submitted to PCGS (without the dog hair) that was returned an 1855 normal date. They changed the identifier and coin number that I gave them. What went into that decision?!! The photos could be clearer but this 1855/54 WB-1 overdate is as strong and conspicuous as it gets. Can you see it? They apparently cannot from this photo. Then I get the necessary disclaimer that if I do submit the coin again, it could still come back an 1855 normal date. That's why I say the coin isn't being evaluated here, PCGS is.
I hope PCGS staff is taking notes.